There is a power imbalance when dating your daughter. Just like a teacher is generally not allowed to date their student. So there is an issue with dating your daughter.
While the medical concerns with incest don’t apply here, the stigma of having sexual relations with a relative usually doesn’t take such technicalities into account.
I’m not sure what biological stigma is supposed to mean. Sexual relations between siblings gives most people the ick regardless of technicalities, and that is a social stigma, the only kind of stigma I’m aware of.
I think that’s all shit we are taught. In highschool there was a brother and sister in the grade above me that were notoriously very clingy with each other and their parents didn’t let them take sex ed because that class needed parental sign off and the bible was the only teacher they needed or some stupid shit. Anyway they were seen fucking in the storage room when extra chairs were needed for an event. People just passed it off as twins stuff before, then after it was twins stuff
“Biological stigma” would refer to the effects of having an incestuous child.
“Social stigma” would refer to the sexual relationship between people in a close familial relationship, which is clearly not the case since they had no prior relationship.
Since these men wouldn’t fall under either category, what other stigma is there?
I don’t think we’re using the same definition of stigma.
Stigma is a profound, unfair negative belief or stereotype attached to a person or group, causing shame, social rejection, and discrimination.
I’m having a hard time making any of the stuff you’re saying make sense with that definition, and the whole word is inherently social.
The fact is that a lot of people think it’s nasty to fuck your brother, and that you should stop fucking him when you realize you’re related to him. I see the nuance in this situation, but a lot of people don’t, and if they maintain the relationship they will have to deal with those people. It’s already hard enough to deal with homophobia without this on top.
I don’t understand how you can read that definition and not comprehend my comment. Perhaps you could explain in your own words what the stigma here should be.
U/bus_factor means society’s stigma when they say “social stigma”. They are trying to communicate that society is grossed out by all relationships between family - whether they are blood related or not, whether they know each other as family members or not. Any whiff of relatedness is enough to condemn the relationship even if the reasons don’t really make sense. Society finds it gross.
You’re talking about specifically the “don’t fuck someone you grew up with even if they’re not your blood relative” rule, which is a stigma about our social relationships, a “social stigma”, but not what prev was meaning when they used that term.
Do you mean that the issue is the fact that they’re brothers or that it’s been printed in a newspaper with their faces on? Because if they’re two consenting adults, they cannot reproduce with one another, and they didn’t grow up as siblings, then I too am struggling to see what the issue is, considering that the usual incest-related issues (inbreeding and consent/coercion issues born of familial bonds/hierarchies) are addressed. Seems the only remaining issue is that it’s been publicized, meaning they’re liable to get shit on by the people for the rest of their lives for something they weren’t aware of, had no control over, and hurts no one.
Unless they can reproduce, I don’t see the issue here.
Exactly! I’m sterilized so I don’t see an issue with dating my daughter.
There is a power imbalance when dating your daughter. Just like a teacher is generally not allowed to date their student. So there is an issue with dating your daughter.
So… okay if it’s my sister, then?
If you started being together not knowing you were siblings, like here, then no.
From a narrow ethical standpoint, there is no issue I can see?
deleted by creator
While the medical concerns with incest don’t apply here, the stigma of having sexual relations with a relative usually doesn’t take such technicalities into account.
Would be still legal in Germany
Why should the biological stigma matter when the only remaining stigma would have been social?
Power dynamics, access/grooming to family members.
The issue isn’t about reproduction, though neither of those would apply in this scenario where we assume they were estranged.
Seems like none of those apply here though. These two didn’t even know they were brothers until they were already together romantically.
I said that.
misread stigma as smegma
Homophobia masked as incestphobia (not sure if real word…)
I’m not sure what biological stigma is supposed to mean. Sexual relations between siblings gives most people the ick regardless of technicalities, and that is a social stigma, the only kind of stigma I’m aware of.
I think that’s all shit we are taught. In highschool there was a brother and sister in the grade above me that were notoriously very clingy with each other and their parents didn’t let them take sex ed because that class needed parental sign off and the bible was the only teacher they needed or some stupid shit. Anyway they were seen fucking in the storage room when extra chairs were needed for an event. People just passed it off as twins stuff before, then after it was twins stuff
Yes, these are social norms, and those are taught.
“Biological stigma” would refer to the effects of having an incestuous child.
“Social stigma” would refer to the sexual relationship between people in a close familial relationship, which is clearly not the case since they had no prior relationship.
Since these men wouldn’t fall under either category, what other stigma is there?
I don’t think we’re using the same definition of stigma.
I’m having a hard time making any of the stuff you’re saying make sense with that definition, and the whole word is inherently social.
The fact is that a lot of people think it’s nasty to fuck your brother, and that you should stop fucking him when you realize you’re related to him. I see the nuance in this situation, but a lot of people don’t, and if they maintain the relationship they will have to deal with those people. It’s already hard enough to deal with homophobia without this on top.
I don’t understand how you can read that definition and not comprehend my comment. Perhaps you could explain in your own words what the stigma here should be.
U/bus_factor means society’s stigma when they say “social stigma”. They are trying to communicate that society is grossed out by all relationships between family - whether they are blood related or not, whether they know each other as family members or not. Any whiff of relatedness is enough to condemn the relationship even if the reasons don’t really make sense. Society finds it gross.
You’re talking about specifically the “don’t fuck someone you grew up with even if they’re not your blood relative” rule, which is a stigma about our social relationships, a “social stigma”, but not what prev was meaning when they used that term.
No inbreeding, no problem
The issue is the fact they are brothers is on the front page of the newspaper. Hope that helps
Do you mean that the issue is the fact that they’re brothers or that it’s been printed in a newspaper with their faces on? Because if they’re two consenting adults, they cannot reproduce with one another, and they didn’t grow up as siblings, then I too am struggling to see what the issue is, considering that the usual incest-related issues (inbreeding and consent/coercion issues born of familial bonds/hierarchies) are addressed. Seems the only remaining issue is that it’s been publicized, meaning they’re liable to get shit on by the people for the rest of their lives for something they weren’t aware of, had no control over, and hurts no one.
That’s what I was saying yes