cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/62271427
For those interested, the Systemd release that’s planned to include the controversial ‘birthDate’ field to user records, complying with age-verification laws, is v261 (see ‘milestone’ in the pull request). This release seems to be planned for May.
The current release, from some hours ago, is v260.1. I see that Ubuntu Noble (24.04) just updated to v255.
what difference does it make to you if you don’t mind me asking
Why do you care if governments spy on you if you have nothing to hide?
Same logic.
Legislators: propose a law that mandates age verification in operating systems
Distros: what’s that? Public discussion? No we don’t need that! Look! We’ve already done it! And you haven’t even passed the law yet! Does it cover non-commercial software? We don’t know or care!
Legislators: wow we didn’t realise it was as easy to regulate open source as it is for commercial software! Now how about we get that client side scanning and software attestation into your nerd shit? You all have TPMs now yes?
I know there is a lot of misleading information online regarding this matter so please allow me to write down my version and feel free to correct me.
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The law - as it is now - doesn’t require any actual verification, it just wants OS to require users to provide a birth date. You - as a user - can put whatever date your heart desire. The purpose is that parents performing OS setup for their children could input their correct date of birth so that apps know that a minor is using the PC not an Adult.
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Systemd provides field for you to store your birth date. It is an optional field and it will obviously be blank in your system unless you dig around to find out how to set it.
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The ones who would enforce the date of birth thing is installers of various Linux distribution who wish to comply. ArchLinux has an open merge request that would require providing a birth date (again no verification, you put what you want)
Happy to provide links to support any of my claims above
The law - as it is now - doesn’t require any actual verification, it just wants OS to require users to provide a birth date
And it didn’t require any verification yesterday, yet it requires one today. Requirements can change.
Ever heard of a slippery slope? Not required today just means they’ll require it when enough people buy in and they think they can get away with it.
You are completely missing every single part of the point.
What part of don’t comply in advance with fascism is so difficult to understand?
so you want them to comply after the deadline?
What I want is for them to signal non-support for the fuckery instead of signaling support for it!
I don’t want them to comply at all, and just say people in Fascist California can’t use their software anymore instead.
Its multiple states plus some countries too.
But anyway the law as it stand is not problematic to any one. When installing an OS and asked for birth date put any random date.
If the law require actual verification or make it illegal - for you as a user - to provide false date then its fascist in my book
Remember when port sites had the same thing? Now in like, what half of all US states you have to show ID.
Things always start innocently enough the trick is knowing that whenever the government starts enacting laws like this (It’S JuSt YoUr AgE!) It always, always, always (say it with me now) always 100 percent of the time, escalates.
Interestingly they also made routers from other countries illegal now too. Its gearing up towards you having to do SSN or some incredibly invasive biometric like retina scans or fingerprints just to use your system. And the router thing is when they come for VPNs that will be a lot easier to control when they see 100% of all the traffic you send and receive with no way out.
You saying “you want them to follow after they pass the law” is kind of an easy tell that you realize that this all will have law attached to it at some point.
Do you want that? If not then stand the fuck up and don’t let people downplay shit like this.
Its multiple states plus some countries too.
That only underscores how imperative it is to fight against it, and that fucking fascist traitors like Poettering disregarding the community by fiat are the last thing we need!
You may be missing the point.
To most people participating in soceity for the last 10yrs is obvious that this is just a step. Think of the boiling frog metaphore. There is BIG money in rent seeking through enshittification.
Fortunately open source software is not controllable to the same degree by legistlation as proprietary shit (ms, apple). So, while specific countries or states could create such laws, open source software in general is unlikely to comply. The reason is simple: everyone has access to the source code, so anyone can rip out any offending piece of code. Which is happening with systemd right now.
Btw, if I’m not mistaken the systemd PR implementing the birthdate change is closed wihout the code being merged. For now.
The PR attempting to revert the fascism-compliance change was the one that was closed without being merged.
Btw, if I’m not mistaken the systemd PR implementing the birthdate change is closed wihout the code being merged. For now.
It says merged in the GitHub link in the post.
if I’m not mistaken the systemd PR implementing the birthdate change is closed wihout the code being merged. For now. it was merged and another pull request was created to revert that change. that pull request was closed.
To be clear the code went into the repo
Think of the boiling frog metaphore.
You’re saying - if I get you right - that if we let systemd add birthdate field today, tomorrow or after tomorrow we won’t revolt if we have to upload an ID to install an OS.
I respectfully disagree. I have a clear red line which is “don’t force me to do stuff”.
You want to add an optional field? I couldn’t care less.
You want me to input my valid birthdate or I can’t use your system. That’s when I revolt.
You want to add an optional field? I couldn’t care less.
You want me to input my valid birthdate or I can’t use your system. That’s when I revolt.
By then you revolting will be already too late.
Once again, study the frog.
The funny part is that you think you will be able to revolt by then.
How are you going to organize and make that revolt substantial, with changes that come from it without the ability to freely communicate with the others around you?
Sure folks in your immediate community. You know like 90% of the immediate community that doesn’t give a shit about privacy rights uses google Facebook apple and the like for 100% of their data, photos messages search history and more.
Those people aren’t going to help bring about change. But the like minded people you run into on things for instance like Lemmy, can.
You can’t effectively do any of that when they are monitoring it all and know who you are.
“This guy is a terrorist” they will say. Literally, just happened for people using Signal in a us court of law.
The time for revolt is before you lose the rights and ability to do so not after its all burned to the ground.
But you’re right you could revolt by not using electronics anymore. I mean shit, I get it. But that’s not something I am comfortable with, I want to take back control NOW.
Like we all should.
How does that address the point I was making?
Your point was around age verification which I am saying systemd’s update doesn’t do such thing
It sets it up to be used if decided to be used, doesn’t it?
Its like saying "look I have a pack of cigarettes on the table but I’m not going to smoke them, I just like that the option is there - but not because I would ever use it though
And then next week adding a lighter to the table.
No big deal, I haven’t smoked!
yet
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I think the law in Brazil have already come into effect at the time of the merge. So it is not really compliance in advance.
Fuck Brazil’s law.
The good side: I feel it might enables me to better setup parental control in the future. If software read from the age field, then the blocking can be more robust than a simple DNS sink hole by pihole, which is really easy to get around, with mobile data or directly visiting IP address.
I do find this field is fundamentally different from verification using government issued ID (yet). I will definitely fight the next one, but I am kind of okay with this one.
Cons: it is additional fingerprint parameter, I hope the xdg-desktop protocol can be implemented to give out as little information as possible for the age field, instead of just handing the birthday field to every app that ask for it. And I hope all adult who don’t have any age-based content filtering needs will opt to leave the field empty.
I think xdg-desktop protocol was already rejected
Seems like this one still exists https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/pull/1922
Its similar but not the same. Original was for input birthdate but this one is for specify general age group
I think they will find a lot of people born on 01-01-2000.
I was born on 0001-01-01
It’s optional so they will find lots of people born on null.
