I have been testing Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser using fingerprint.com. I get unique persistent identifiers that are unique per machine and persist over rebooting sessions. Javascript was on during this test.
This could be very dangerous to people using Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser.
For example, if someone visits Rainbow Railroad, an organization for leaving repressive countries with hostile LGBT policies, and then watches a video about the organization on YouTube, and then also does something, like create a Discord Server, and use Tor Browser to get around geoblocking but link it to their personal phone number, then a hostile regime buying data from data brokers could possible determine that user is considering using rainbow railroad. Even if this exact example isn’t realistic or plausible (although governments do buy form data brokers), users should be aware that persistent identifiers in Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser allow for continuous tracking of a user using the same machine.
I posted this information on privacyguides forum and they deleted my account after, leading me to wonder if the forum is a giant honeypot that curates acceptable privacy discussions and unacceptable private discussions. I honestly wonder if they are infiltrated by the government. They repeatedly delete the posts of other people as well and the whole thing is starting to not sit well with me.
I was able to partially replicate, on safest mode with the minimum js enabled for a result to come up
Tor on mobile gets reliably identified (not a huge surprise, but annoying) regardless of extensions
Tor on desktop did not get reliably identified, even with uBlock
Tor on desktop in “safer” mode, with default noscript, and uBlock enabled, was not reliably identified
Edit: Surprisingly, even on “standard” setting, desktop was not uniquely identified
Just chiming in to say I learned a lot from discussions and links in this thread. Thanks all.
may i ask which os you’re in? linux?
i hate windows, but it seemed like tor’s fingerprint randomization works best on commonly used oses. never worked properly on my freebsd or slackware… i use a win10 vm for tor because of this. (only allow tor to communicate, via proxy and block windows from talking to microsoft)
This could entirely be me being tired, and thus a little stupid right now, but how exactly are you rebooting the system? If it’s by hitting the restart button, or powering off and back on, you may be having issues with something getting “stuck” in RAM, essentially. Try fully powering down the machine, disconnect the power cable (and battery if it’s a laptop), press and hold the power button for 30+ seconds, then hook everything back up and test again. That should be enough to drain any little bits of electricity stored in the system, thus fully clearing anything that might’ve been hanging around from RAM. Also, make sure the browsers are fully updated and no outdated extensions/plugins/etc.
Using JavaScript defeats the purpose of Tor
It’s wild to post something like this, and say things like “This impacts at least some operating systems or distributions,” without indicating at all which ones you’re having the experience with.
Skepticism is good here. However, I was not able to replicate this. On Mullvad and Tor, with “Safer” settings, both gave me a new ID after a browser restart.
Then this may be happening only with certain distributions or operating systems. It is definitely happening for me, I checked it over and over. “You have visited once.” I close Tor Browser, restart, come back to fingerprint.com. “You have visited twice.” I also did try this with safer. I did multiple tests. This impacts at least some operating systems or distributions. It may not impact Qubes. I didn’t test that, but I am sure it impacts at least some users.
Are you keeping at default window size, or resizing? If latter, it is expected. This is a gotcha when using tiling window managers as they often force a window size that may give you off. TB should otherwise start with static fixed window size. Enabling “Letterboxing” feature can help alleviate this somewhat.
On PG: Also been seeing weird vibes and some inexplicable moderation comms and actions when looking closer. Their “recommendations” and “guides” also raise eyebrows. Something is very strange there.
This website says my device is less trustworthy because I’m using incognito and privacy focused settings. Fuck 'em.
How are you installing the browsers? Flatpak? AppImage?
I can actually replicated that. Tor Browser without extensions (only the default https anywhere and noscript) on Mac OS. Pretty scary? Wondering how this works.
Aha! I figured it out. Apparently my Tor browser got old extensions in there from older Tor versions (Tor Button and something i can’t remember, they were set to deprecated and were disabled). I had Tor literally installed for… over 10 years or something, so I would imagine it didn’t reset itself properly after doing one update or another. After removing the Tor Browser data folder and reinstalling it (for good measure, don’t think that was necessary), I get random values on the page.
EDIT: One additional thought on that… I feel this is something Tor Browser should consider automatically when applying updates. At least a warning would be good to reset your data once in a while to stay non-unique.
Wonder why privacyguides deleted the post
Whenever someone says they had a moderator action taken against them, I am suspicious. Some mod teams are notorious, sure, but it’s almost always a case of unreliable narration.
I imagine behavior like the allcaps reply above had something to do with it.
Other users on privacyguides forums have commented on the exact same problem where threads are just completely deleted, even with valid questions.
“Javascript was on during this test.”
I understand: Javascript is not safe. I know that. But most of the internet, except for onions, use javascript and it’s nearly impossible to use most of the Internet in web browsers without it. The problem is that if Fingerprint.com can reliable detect differences between users when javascript is on for Mullvad Browser and Tor Browser in certain operating systems, users should be aware. Most people would think Mullvad Browser in “safer” mode would not create a persistent per-computer hash of the browser that can be tracked across sessions.
Yes, it’s by design. You should probably read this https://mullvad.net/en/browser/mullvad-browser
They have different unique hashes per computer, so Tor Browser user on “Computer 1” has a unique hash and Tor Browser user on Computer 2 has a unique hash. I have read Mullvad’s documentation on their browser. Please re-read the original post.
Every browser has a unique fingerprint. The advantage of tor browser is EVERY user is matching the same fingerprint so you cannot tell who it is. If you run Firefox with a unique set of plugins, it will be unique to fingerprinting sites, but that is BAD. The fingerprint will identify you as you, rather than 1/all tor browser users on your OS.
They have different fingerprints PER COMPUTER without any plugins other than default of No Script. I tested this, it is not the same hash for every computer. It varies per computer and was persistent across sessions.
Are you testing windows v linux? Tor browser started reporting itself as Linux on Linux.
It has no clue who you are using tor. Just switch the circuit your on.
If all users have the same fingerprint then nobody is getting fingerprinted.
All users don’t have the same fingerprint. Fingerprint.com is testing other things that Tor isn’t covering. So if they are testing canvas and other stuff that Tor protects, and 2 things that aren’t protected that give unique identifiers, they still create a unique hash. I did not test this using Tails or Qubes and it may not affect all operating systems.
Isn’t Mullvad browser kind of deprecated? Vivaldi is quite good, despite its closed-source UI components.
No, Mullvad is not deprecated at all (are you maybe thinking of Mull?) Vivaldi is Chromium based, that’s a no-go: don’t support Google’s hegemony by any means
Vivaldi is also proprietary. Not a good privacy browser.
Then that’s great, at some point Mullvad’s browser development slowed down and I had the impression that it was abandoned. Glad that it isn’t.
And of course Vivaldi isn’t the best option out there - it’s just one of the least offending Chromium browsers. Mozilla itself isn’t in too great shape either, sketchy politics and they’re on life support from Google funding.
Firefox forks though? Quite good stuff out there. I’ve heard some recent praise for the Zen browser in particular.
And if you’re on macOS, then Orion browser is a great option (and WebKit-based).
I suspect from what you’re choosing to say that you’ve very, very recently started comparing browsers. You should read more before posting about this topic. Your comments are very uneducated.
