PPS: Please at least TRY to read the following - and if possible, not just the title - with an open mind and in a spirit of tolerance. It was written in good faith by a Linux user who will be staying on Linux.
I’m frustrated. Once again, I have had to buy a computer I didn’t want in order to stay on Linux.
Some background. Compared to most people in this forum, I am a somewhat normal computer user. That is, I have not touched a mouse in decades, I use a small lightweight low-end laptop (which is not slow on Linux), and I do not take anything to pieces. To be clear, I’m a programmer and a massive FOSS idealist. But I’ve never been interested in hardware, and in this respect I’m a complete normie. Let’s not forget that for most ordinary people, a “computer” these days is the tethered corporate toy in their pocket.
For me this slide away from free personal computing is now getting impossible to ignore.
- 20 years ago I could buy a laptop (a Fujitsu) from a major European electronics retailer which came with a Linux CD - a Linux CD! (Kanotix, a Debian variant).
- In the late 2010s, I had a nice choice of cheap Taiwanese Wintel netbooks. So there was a Windows tax to pay but at least the hardware worked fine.
- 4 years ago, the options were getting thin on the ground. For 400€ I could find only one Linux-compatible X86 laptop, made by Acer. And since I didn’t have a Linux live USB, I had to (fake-) register the thing with Microsoft in order to get access to the damn web.
- Today, there’s almost nothing left. Intel laptops have all but disappeared from the budget aisle, replaced by ARM-powered Chromebooks and, increasingly, big Android tablets with keyboards. Putting non-spyware Linux on these things is often possible, sort of, but it’s a nightmare. You’re back to the 2010 era of ROM-flashing on Android, using repos from random developers and wading through impenetrable forum discussions. It’s a massive PITA. This is not the way computing should be done, and normal users will never do it even if they were capable. It’s hardly secure either.
The geeky suggestion which I can hear coming, “buy a secondhand Thinkpad”, is not a proper solution. It’s a band-aid fix with a timeout. Hardware from the likes of Tuxedo and Framework is nice but too heavy and way too expensive for me. The Pinebook Pro is always out of stock.
And anyway, for years I have wanted to move from a laptop to a convertible tablet (like the Surface or Lenovo’s Yoga and Duet lines). It makes so much sense ergonomically and even in terms of maintenance. (Keyboards have moving parts. I have to change my Acer because it has a faulty keyboard which cannot be fixed except professionally at prohibitive cost. Crazy.) But none of these computers are easily compatible with Linux. It’s possible, yes, but hardly simple.
I considered, for a fleeting moment, throwing in the towel. After 20 years.
And then bought yet another laptop, basically the same model as last time except a Chromebook. I know I’ll get an OS I control onto it without too much stress. That’s a relief. But I’m more worried than ever about how this story is going to end.
PS: I should have predicted the bitterness and negativity and cynicism I would provoke simply by sharing my thoughts and feelings in good faith. Social media is absolutely incorrigible. In the meantime I will of course be staying on Linux, as I thought I described.
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I agree that incompatibility of most Android devices with free OS development is a huge problem, and that Android devices taking up an increasing share of all computers is a problem for FOSS rather than a benefit, despite the use of the Linux kernel. In shops around me, none of the phones affordable for someone with a 400 EUR / month salary will ever have LineageOS support, meaning that after two years they’ll all end up running abandoned, outdated, proprietary operating system forks, despite nothing technically preventing these capable computers from running a secure, up-to-date free OS for a few more years. This isn’t because of any issue on the LineageOS side, but because the entire Android device ecosystem is fixated on producing planned obsolescence and locking the user in.
I know you may be feeling disappointment and exhaustion from the negative replies, but please dont stop talking about this issue. Im a technical guy. Ive got no problem with - and in fact find it fun to - flash and deal with the problems you describe, but I also desire linux to become at the very least one of the main OSs people use. To do that, I realise it needs to be a simple enough process, which it is installer wise if you have a flashed USB (also not a complicated process nowadays to do). However as you describe, its the hardware compatibility and support from HW vendors that is the main hurdle now.
Make noise. Just like your post. Weve been making noise on the software compatibility enough to the point its now no longer impossible to have a linux system runnung with the software we need for daily life/work/school, but the next step is getting the HW manufacturers on board. I do feel like its a cycle though, of not enough number of users to convince HW manufacturers to officially support linux, and not enough HW support to get the users we need to migrate to linux. Who knows how it will turn out or how long it will take, but for sure we need to be making noise to get the support we want.
400€ in 2006-money is 600€ today. Starlabs used to have a cheap model, but I guess it’s hard for anyone to be in the budget segment with RAM prices these days. I bought a huawei matebook a few years back for about 600€ - they’re sold with Linux pre-installed in China, but not here. But that means that stuff is well-supported.
In my mind the landscape is quite a bit better than 20 years ago. You’d have to pick and choose a model that worked well then. Chipsets are usually well supported by the time they are in laptops today.
The Microsoft tax has been under pretty heavy NDAs lately, but it wouldn’t surprise me if M$ were paying to be pre-installed. They’re in the data mining business, not operating systems in 2026.
But yes, we’re all still waiting for the year of the Linux desktop.
It’s rather deliberate at this point. They are at war with general purpose computers, because we depend on those in order to have GNU/Linux, just as we depend on a free and open Internet to have this platform. If they can get the herd to fully embrace these locked-down infernal machines, that will be it, on a certain level. We will have RISC-V and the ability to deploy to FPGAs, but the voice of Little Brother will be heard only on their whim.
Picking hardware these days is like trying to find the best drop of water in a bag of dirt.
Why don’t you buy a Dell 2-in-1? Or a Thinkpad X1 Tablet or a Yoga? They’re all just fine. And work superb with Linux. I had mine rotate the desktop when I turned it, the pen was nice and you can take notes with Rnote or Xournal++… A GNOME desktop feels almost like an Android tablet… I’ve been using it for many years like that.
Too expensive, too heavy, too powerful. I want the kind of thing bought by poorer people than Linux techies. 10 years ago it was compatible with Linux. Now it’s not. All explained in my post.
I’m not really sure what you’re complaining about here. Laptops are too expensive? Yeah, so is everything else. That has nothing to do with Linux. And why would buying a second hand machine be a temporary solution? Laptops are always being phased out and flogged off for cheap. And you can run Linux on pretty much any x86 machine, now and in the foreseeable future.
At this rate there won’t be any left. Did you read what I wrote closely, or just the vibes part?
PS: to be clear, literally all your questions are answered in my post.
So long as there are businesses needing laptops and on regular upgrade cycles, I would believe there will still be surplus for us. Let someone else pay the new car tax. I’m buying used until prices improve.
I have used ThinkCentres for a router and Nextcloud setup, a year behind refurb ThinkPad for mobile work, and server parts deal hard drives in my NAS.
As hinted, what I’m looking for is smaller, lighter, fanless, basically a glorified tablet. What lives in the niche occupied by netbooks a decade ago. There are more and more options. But this time the hardware is all but incompatible with Linux.
For slightly more serious hardware your plan is decent. Pretty green too.
Yeah, I’m waiting to see what the ARM based laptops can do in the role as a couch computer. If I were to bet on which laptop now would fit your needs, check out a Pinebook.
Have you considered the macbook neo, it’s not a Linux machine, but it is probably the cheapest machine that fits the glorified tablet footprint. I don’t understand the draw to something that basic and lightweight, but if it mattered to me I would probably go with that. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, some flavor of Linux will run on just about anything that isn’t ARM at this point, and I wouldn’t be surprised if an old netbook would just work for your use case with a lightweight distro.
I would sooner gnaw off my leg than use a black box of closed-source software made by a company as opaque and rich and powerful as Apple. I don’t doubt that the hardware is very good.
No, not all questions were answered in the post. He asked why secondhand laptops were a bandaid solution, and the post only made the claim that it was a bandaid fix, without explanation. They said that businesses will basically always be buying new fleet laptops, and thus there will basically always be secondhand laptops. Why wouldn’t that work?
Secondhand is a band-aid because (1) some people will never buy secondhand and (2), a piece of hardware inevitably has a life expectancy. Seems self-evident to me that these things are a problem if we care about still having FOSS computing in a decade or two.
After 20 years. [Of using Linux] But none of these computers are easily compatible with Linux. It’s possible, yes, but hardly simple.
What Linux distro are you using in 2026 that still struggles with hardware driver support for mainline systems from a manufacturer you’ve heard of? Most driver hardship these days stems from putting Linux on locked down or uncommon/ niche hardware. Basically any system you’ve listed will do fine without tinkering, pick the system you want with the features you need, buy it, then install Linux. I bet most things just work out of the box.
Please re-read the paragraph where I describe what is available, on the shelf, in an the same affordable price bracket, now compared to 20 years ago.
With an average yearly inflation of almost 2.5% the 400€ in 2006 is the same as about 650€ now in 2026. I have to remind myself of this constantly to avoid being too much of a penny pincher.
Add in that all low cost computers are at least 50€ costlier 2026 than 2025 due to the AI datacenters hogging all the memory increasing the price of storage, ram, cpu and gpu.I know you don’ t want a second hand ThinkPad but they are wonderful long lasting machines. I got a functioning T440 and a T480 both with Debian on them. Second hand from myself as I got them for cheap without storage from work. Saving up for one, second hand or not, might actually save you money due to longevity.
The keyboard replacement of the proper Lenovo T series is also simple
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T480+Keyboard+Replacement/140096
Just watch out for the Lenovo TXXs series. The “s” makes them slimmer and much harder to replace parts in.Fair points. I actually earned more 20 years ago than I do today, but that’s on me. In retrospect the real golden age IMO was the netbook era. Those things were Linux-compatible and there was tons of competition so they were cheap as dirt. I had an Asus that cost next to nothing and ended up taking 6 years of constant abuse (in a backpack).
Yes, I’ve heard about Lenovo T line and I don’t doubt they’re great. A bit too heavy and frankly high performance for me. And it still feels like a temporary solution, like driving a 1980s car because they don’t make them like they did.
If the Pinebook Pro was in stock I probably would have bought that.
I’ve always been a fan of machines with more power to them so I never really tried those dirt cheap netbooks out. Lucking out and getting one that also lasts for 6 years sounds nice. :)
The ThinkPads are still being made that way though, the latest T-series one earned a 10/10 repairability score at ifixit.
At the same time most enterprises I’ve been in contact with replaces anything that is 3+ years old instead of troubleshooting and fixing the machine which ensures the refurbished supply.I did a quick check and the x13 yoga do sound like a good fit for your wishes, except for it being an older and refurbished machine that is. Convertible, touch and 1.25kg for 421€
https://www.refurbed.de/en-de/p/lenovo-thinkpad-x13-yoga-10310u/114695b/For me it feels like buying an 8 year old car instead of a brand new one. You get a lot more for a lot less.
Obviously you’re right about the economics of it. The problem is the arbitrariness factor. I personally don’t much like that. In 25 years I only ever bought a secondhand computer once (a Compaq laptop!) and… it ended up failing on me (HDD). Then there’s the battery issue. I am very careful with my hardware (including keeping the battery within its range) and I know that I will get X years out of it if nobody else has touched it. I agree that secondhand is cheaper overall and certainly greener.
PS: I like that Yoga a lot!
I get it and I would never buy a second hand laptop from a private seller. I’d go for one of those refurb-stores that promises at least 80% remaining battery and a limited 12 month warranty.
On second thought I might consider the private seller if I could check and test the machine in person before buying.I hope you end up enjoying the chromebook until the currect pricing crisis has passed us by. :)
For the price comparison between then and now: you should probably not compare the price in today money with the price from 10 or 20 years ago: inflation is a reality and your 400$ from 2000 wouldcost how much in today’s money? Maybe 800$, more? So, it’s not that bad.
The real issue, the one you should be worrying about and pointing out to people, is that while inflation is doing its thing (making prices go up), salaries have not gone up at the same rate, quite the opposite: our salaries are worth less. And that is the real place where most people (those who earn their living through a salary, aka most of us) are being screwed up. Bad.
But I’m more worried than ever about how this story is going to end.
I’m not a dev, I’m a mere GNU/Linux user myself (before Linux, I was using Apple computers and have been doing so since the mid-80s), but I too worry.
Not because of the price of the hardware (see my previous remark) but because I see little reasons to be optimistic about the future of the “general purpose” computers in general. And even less reason to be optimistic about the respect of our freedom and privacy on that computer. It almost already is a lost fight on our mobile devices. Edit: and most of it has been lost in the name of ‘convenience’, btw. And it’s a fight we are losing on the political/societal level. At the same speed we’re being un-learned, so to speak, of the core values of what being a citizen in a democracy is supposed to mean.
But that is a whole different story.
PS: I should have predicted the bitterness and negativity and cynicism I would provoke simply by sharing my thoughts and feelings in good faith.
Why worry about that? It’s nothing new (and certainly not exclusive to around here) that most people don’t like being disturbed, or annoyed. They won’t change because it’s coming from you, or from I ;)
Not because of the price of the hardware (see my previous remark) but because I see little reasons to be optimistic about the future of the “general purpose” computers in general. And even less reason to be optimistic about the respect of our freedom and privacy on that computer. It almost already is a lost fight on our mobile devices. And it’s a fight we are losing on the political/societal level. At the same speed we’re being un-learned, so to speak, of the core values of what being a citizen in a democracy is supposed to mean.
But that is a whole different story.
It’s the subtext to my whole post. I completely share your take.
In your previous post you mentioned this:
And anyway, for years I have wanted to move from a laptop to a convertible tablet (like the Surface or Lenovo’s Yoga and Duet lines). It makes so much sense ergonomically and even in terms of maintenance.
I was in a similar boat, a few years ago. Then I started I realizing the constant trade-offs I was accepting to do in order to use an always newer and better tech… So, I did what I was trained to do: consider the problem in its entirety, not just as “computers are getting more expensive or they come with too many trade-offs” position (which it is, btw) but as something more global: what do I want to achieve with those high-tech tools and do I really need them to achieve that?
In my case, this is not a universal truth but it’s 100% working for me, I realized that most if not all what I had been trying to achieve with high-tech was to recreate something comparable to what I had been using all my live, since I was a little boy: analog tools. Like, you know, reading actual books, writing and sketching using actual pen and paper, and so on.
So my very personal solution was simply to move away from digital-tech and to rekindle my usage of analog low-tech. It took me some effort to re-educate myself but it was worth it. That was also a true revolution in the preservation of my privacy and… sanity (I quit all social media at the same time, now a few years ago, and it was so liberating).
It’s also cheaper ;)
Interesting take, and maybe you are a kind of pioneer.
Actually, I’ve done something a bit similar in that I use my mobile device (“smartphone”) a lot less than a decade ago. It had got to point where I was doing everything on Android (i.e. like most people today). I said STOP to that and moved gradually back to the laptop. Now I have a tiny smartphone (4-in Cubot) which I use for the same things as 15 years ago: mapping, photos, podcasts and that’s about it, certainly nothing social (nothing at all, including messaging, if you can believe it). Pretty radical but it’s been a liberation, similar to your experience.
Interesting take, and maybe you are a kind of pioneer.
I see myself as being a lot more stubborn than a ‘pioneer’ in anything ;)
The day I realized I could not agree with the intense push toward always more invasive tech (with less privacy, less user control and more outside control, be it private-corporation or official/public), I acted accordingly… to the best of my limited abilities.
Pretty radical but it’s been a liberation, similar to your experience.
Indeed.
As for my own phone (I have one: I’m no Luddite, I just wish to stay in control). I use as a mere phone (and barely) and for any app/services I have no reasonable alternative to. Which means I use it for work/business/government/financial things (which is already too much, but like I said there is no real reasonable alternative left for those). So on that phone, there is no social, obviously I quit using all of them beside the Fediverse (that I only access on my computer), no games, no movies, no apps (beside Uber), no music or podcast (for the rare occasions when I want to listen to something on the go, I will use an old iPod one with the wheel). I’ve even stopped taking pictures almost entirely and completely stop taking personal pictures.
We are very similar, it seems.
With the exception that I’m totally addicted to podcasts. Literally thousands of hours per year, and I jack up the speed on them, too (productivity hacking is a mirage, I know, I know).
And photos. I take a ton. But only a few survive my ruthless culling.
And photos. I take a ton. But only a few survive my ruthless culling.
I used too. Started as a little boy in the 70s… I quit approx a decade ago when people started becoming hostile towards my kind of pictures (street). It always was my hobby, not worth the hassle. Instead, I switched to sketching street scenes ;)
Forgot to say that: your title was probably not the best pick if you really did not want to trigger emotional (and, obviously, mostly unhappy) reactions. Just saying.
Yeah, you’re right, but just allow me to say that it’s really irritating to have to write as if for children rather than for adults. I actually toned down the title in anticipation of exactly that. I love Linux and personally I am not “triggered” by this title, it remains a mystery to me why people are so sensitive to such things. Especially geeks.
Yeah, you’re right, but just allow me to say that it’s really irritating to have to write as if for children rather than for adults.
I know. Even just the fact that we should worry about discussing that mere remark publicly, knowing we may expose ourselves to some angry crowd, is a worrying sign.
I don’t know if we’re the same age (I’m nearing my 60s) but do keep in mind a vast majority of those younger people (younger than I, at least) have never been properly educated to behave like adults. School failed them. They also never have been taught how to properly read/listen to an argument, even less so to an argument they don’t agree with, and how to properly respond to it. Nowadays, barely caricaturing, any disagreement of opinion will instantly morph into a personal attack.
They’re not responsible for that tragic situation, though. School is. We are, their elders, their parents. We who allowed school to fail teaching kids anything useful.
The first time I read this article, I wanted to cry. I had been noticing for many years already things were not going that well with the public educative system (not just in the USA, here in France too: it’s unbelievable) but I naively imagined ‘elite’ kids were sort of immune to the leveling down that was happening everywhere else… But no, even College-level kids nowadays can’t read books anymore. They also can barely write or do simple math.
It’s no wonder all the ideological non-sense that is thriving on so many campuses could spread so easily among them: they had no been prepared to notice it for what it is (almost complete garbage and non-sense), nor how to resist it. Here again, all they seem able to do is to make it a personal affair with an ‘us’ camp facing a ‘them’ camp… while the people behind all that non-sense, tranquilly benefit from it.
Or maybe it’s me being too old (and grumpy), unable to notice the amazing critical thinking that is going on among them? I would love that it was just me.
With you on all counts. I read that article when it was published (on college kids) and was similarly shocked and dismayed. Didn’t know it was quite that bad.
Actually it’s worse still: not just semi-illiterate and incapable of taking criticism but also inclined towards authoritarian politics. Definitely parenting is a factor, as you say. Effectively children have become consumer objects, when people are having them at all. The result was predictable. Other factors must be at work too, I think. It’s been 3 generations since a major war, and most people are barely aware of how lucky they are and not interested enough in history to find out. And there’s the environmental context, too. Things are going to get harder for our species. I think that deep down the youngsters know this, and they’re scared, as we should all be. I’m a child of the 80s and I’m feeling like I drew a pretty good lot.
So we should maybe give them a break with all these judgements. But it’s so hard!
Actually it’s worse still: not just semi-illiterate and incapable of taking criticism but also inclined towards authoritarian politics.
those are linked. Edit: Without any education to critical thinking (and self-doubt, too) there is little preventing anyone from falling for ‘authoritarian’.
So we should maybe give them a break with all these judgements. But it’s so hard!
It’s not hard for me. I remember being young myself (thinking I knew it all…), plus I would rather spend my energy blaming the ones that do deserve to be blamed:
- our respective public educative systems that insist on screwing up those kids with their meaningless reforms. Also, note how private schools fare much better (or less worse)… unsurprisingly, they’re also reserved to an even smaller elite population that can afford the entry ticket)
- ourselves. We, the adults parents or not, who allowed such a wreckage not only to happen but to keep repeating itself and amplifying with every iteration. It has been going for approx 50 years, accelerating with always more meaningless reforms and changes, ending with kids being taught almost nothing, beside anxiety maybe)
…I am a somewhat normal computer user. That is, I have not touched a mouse in decades…
Using what metric does this make you a “somewhat normal computer user”?
How is it a “sacrifice” to stay on Linux here? How is this at all tied to being the fault of Linux?
Sounds like you are complaining to complain. Metaphorically shaking your cane at the sky and yelling at clouds. Computing has gone up in price, and things change. Something we all have to get used to.
In 2026 a normal computer user is a guy on a street corner playing with a touchscreen toy.
I will always listen to advice or constructive observations (see other comments for proof). But perhaps I was also looking for mutual support or even consolation, yes. You can call that “complaining for the sake of complaining” if you prefer.
Lots of companies sell laptops with Linux on them. One is in the Netherlands.
Yes, for 1000€-plus. A decade ago you could go to a big-box store and get a Linux-compatible computer for a fraction of that. Today you cannot.
Starts at about 40% higher than my budget with nothing in the convertible category, or fanless, or just small. All of which is available today from any electronics retailer, but basically incompatible with Linux.
Hopefully specialist sellers like this will begin to move downmarket into these new niches.
Sorry.
I don’t understand. First, usually laptop keyboards are pretty easily replaceable, there should be teardown videos for just about anything on YouTube. You shouldn’t need to pay a professional, or buy a whole new laptop.
But even if you do, it’s just “buy laptop, install Linux”. Yes you may need to troubleshoot some driver issues if the manufacturer doesn’t target Linux, but that’s part and parcel of using Linux. If you want something that Just Works, buy a Mac (and use MacOS, not Asahi Linux on it).
The teardown video is available. It’s a 100-stage process involving specialized tools. I know my limits.
But even if you do, it’s just “buy laptop, install Linux”.
Not for less than a grand it isn’t. Not today. For reasons outlined. Go and check. The situation has changed.
buy a Mac
So you don’t think it’s a big deal if non-techie users without 1000 bucks to spare cannot use a computer with an OS under their control? I do.
Disappointed with the flippancy (not to mention predictable bitterness and mockery) of the comments here. I want FOSS to succeed. I thought people here too did.
Not for less than a grand it isn’t.
My dad just bought a shop-standard Lenovo for $600~ and I slapped Mint on it with 0 issues.
I just went on Dell’s site and found a surprising number of cheap Intel laptops that run Windows. That is, not Android or ChromeOS, a real full OS.
Only the premium ones support Linux out of the box, but I’ve had very few issues with Linux on Dells at work. At home I have one of the newer cheap Thinkpads, and it had no issues with Debian. I think OP is trolling, because nothing they’re saying lines up with reality, and they’re changing their story in almost every comment.
Cost: 2x, 3x, 4x what normies are paying for laptops. To repeat myself: unlike 10-20 years ago, you cannot easily put Linux on a low-end commercial laptop any more. I say that’s a problem.
I now also earn 2 times more than 10 / 20 years ago, that is indexation of prices , so ?
I don’t. The fundamental issue is that low-end computing is increasingly incompatible with free software. It’s not breaking news.
I see what you mean and as someone who owns a surface pro collecting dust they’re still working towards putting Linux on, I understand the barrier to entry that a normal computer user like my mother would face in the event that they needed to do this. You are correct about it being similar to loading roms on Android phones or tablets during the early 2000’s, and even though there are a lot of reputable repos and flavors of Linux to choose from, I can see your point about the dwindling number of computers that either come with Linux out of the box, let you choose to buy without an operating system, or don’t require you to load up windows to download that necessary bootable USB.
And you’re right about buying used hardware. That hardware is dwindling in stock and even if it wasn’t it’ll only operate for so long without needing repairs.
Linux users (as someone who’s newer to Linux) very often talk over the heads of the people they talk to online, assuming a certain level of knowledge that’s absolutely not there for a normal person. Some of us need step by step instructions and a lot of the solutions I see here and other forums just throw out a bunch of jargon as a solution without a guide.
We need guides, people. Or at the very least something we can Google.
But we also need hardware that’s reasonable and affordable which is a PITA now that AI has just taken over the consumer hardware space and pushed it to the back burner.
There’s absolutely a reason that people are excited about Valve popularizing hardware that comes stock with Linux. I still don’t have a driver for the fingerprint reader on my ROG Ally X and I can only imagine the problems when the laptop or computer you can afford isn’t one targeted by a dev to be compatible.
Just because most things work doesn’t mean everything works as it should. There will absolutely be headaches a normie computer user will have no idea how to fix.
Completely agree on all counts. I’m not at all a gamer but I keep hearing things about Valve and Steam (whatever the hell they are!) and the vibes I’m getting is that these things may end up saving the day for free software. Hope that’s right.
Valve is one of the very few “tech” companies that are actually offering a Linux distribution stock and working with other devs to make sure things work not just for their hardware but for other companies that want to offer such hardware with Linux installed or as an option. Because they are mainstream they are making a lot of normies aware there’s another option beside Microsoft and windows. This is a good thing on all counts. I do think other companies need to pick up the baton though.
Pinebook is an outlier in a market that is completely dominated by windows hardware and it’s shitty.
