I’ve read that containers are preferred for development, but they aren’t persistent and it doesn’t seem like files such as /etc/fstab can be accessed through them when running distrobox (I enjoy editing such files using vim).
It’s also a bit annoying having to enter a specific container to run something like btop.
Are you supposed to layer them with rpm-ostree?
This is the exact reason the entire concept behind a immutable distro is beyond dog shit
Unless your use case is something like a console where modifications are not intended to happen expect as an extreme outlier. They fucking suck, they make no fucking sense, and just create endless problems if you want to do anything with your hardware.
Its basically re fucking inventing the exact problem that shit like ios has.
You don’t own a computer with an immutable distro. Your distro is assuming your a child too ignorant and stupid to be trusted to do anything with it.
Its security for the sake of protecting idiots from them selves.
Pretty strong and judgemental opinions. Also incorrect 😀
Immutable distros are great for the overwhelming majority of all computer users. Most people want a computer that lets them web browser, game, consume media, and do application based productivity like editing (documents, photos, illustrations, video, etc.). In fact, that was too generous of a description because most people just consume content.
If your distro requires cli for regular usage and requires manual maintenance, it’s only suitable for computer adepts, which is a small minority of all computer users. You are not the average computer user. No one on this site is. If you can’t see that then you aren’t in touch with reality.
You seem really angry about a concept you clearly do not actually understand.
Just to be very clear: the name “immutable distro” is unfortunately a misnomer. In practice, the restrictions found on so-called
“immutable”atomic distros are very tame.For example, on Fedora Atomic[1], it’s mostly a paradigm shift. That is, you can achieve (almost) everything that you can on a traditional distro, the only difference being how.
So, if we would take OP’s query as an example, they are not able to do
sudo dnf install vim btop. Instead[2], they have to dobrew install vim btop. Additionally, these changes persist, as you’d expect. Please note that this is just one of the ways/methods you can achieve this on Bluefin (and other Fedora Atomic derivatives). Other methods include:As you’d expect, each one of these comes with its own set of tradeoffs.
The atomic distro I’m most familiar with. ↩︎
Knowing that they’re on Bluefin, a derivative. ↩︎
To be honest. Immutable distros are not for everyone. Tinkerers especially would not be suited to use them, because of all the “restrictions” in place.
Better to find another distro in that case.
I’m not sure.
I’m a professional tinkerer and I run Debian stable. OK ok it’s not an immutable distro but my point is that I do tinker, just NOT with my main OS.
I’ll tinker in containers, in VMs, in my ~/bin etc but NOT in what hosts all that.
So I would argue that what’s important for tinkerers is to establish clear boundaries on what they want to tinker on and what they do NOT want to tinker on, what can change vs what should never.
But a simple thing like “install a random cli tool to run on host” is often not easy on immutable distros, so it’s usually just more convinient with an oldschool distro in those cases.
I don’t think it actually is. It’s only like that the very first time when you haven’t you this specific distribution itself. Once you know how the few extra step and understand the core principle, it’s trivial.
PS: I did tinker with NixOS, SteamOS and ROCKNIX.
Sure. But you have to figure that out first.
I’m just saying. It’s not for everyone. I feel too limited when trying immutable stuff, so I stick with my classic. 😀
Is this rooted in experience? Or mostly just on vibes?
Seems anything you have to “figure out first” is no beuno.