We can consider believing that only if we assume everyone is privileged enough to have constant access to vegan food. Which is a ridiculous assumption. Being vegan is great and I’m glad people choose to, but you must have a warped view of how others live if you think it’s not just possible, but “EASY” to have that diet. Billions of people cannot even afford the luxury of food that isn’t the cheapest and most processed food money can buy.
And this is not even addressing your “zero” assertion. Unless you carefully grow and harvest your own crops, all your meals ended up killing and hurting small animals that were attempting to live in a field where your meal was grown.
I hate this argument. I was vegan when I was living off $10 a week. I was vegan when I was in the homless center.
I cried my first night in that shelter. They provided dinner, it was cheap box mac n cheese, some meat I forget and broccoli, I started crying, a hormonal nursing mother, the cook noticed. He let me swap the meat and cheese for extra broccoli and there was always apples and oranges in a bowl for folks. Fridays, they let us bring in our own food and use the kitchen, once they set me up with food stamps, it was game on fridays for me.
I was vegan for my poorest years. Before being at the shelter, in them $10 a week days… Not proud of it, but I stole zuchini from a farm stand once. took three of them, I was truly starving. One day later, I saw random cans of tomatoes on the sidewalk in front of a church, took those too. made a nice meal I hadnt had in a while.
I ate can veg and beans as meals. I ate plain ass noodles with salt, I ate weird veg mashes I got from the foodbank and just threw it all in a pan with some rice.
Desperation teaches you many things.
No I couldnt afford vegan products, vegan meat or cheeses, but anything marked vegan is going to have a jacked price. The entire produce section, and a lot of the tinned section, the whole pasta section, is all vegan without having the little V printed on it.
Learning to cook is the way.
In fact I stumbled on veganism because I legit wanted cake, but had no milk, eggs or butter. Was too broke to buy them. I found a recipie for “Depression Cake” and that was my first vegan meal I ever made myself intentionally. I got into vegan baking, because it was cheaper. Then I just gave up all meat, and eventually cheese, because it was cheaper. Thats why I started, to save money. Then I started reading about factory farming practices. Dont watch Earthlings while nursing a newborn. Dont recommend, but that film changed my life. I was already plant bases (I always consumed local honey seasonally tbh) but Earthings solidified everything.
I learned from my gaurdian growing up first, and then watching tons of early '00 Food Network. The only cookbook I have is Julia Childs, which Im not sure Id start with that. And if you are a noob, I absolutely recomend videos over books or written recipies. There are thousands apon thousands of cookbooks. Some folks Ive seen recomment Salt Fat Acid Heat often, like often often, ive never read it, but could be a start.
I have found this website helpful for more vegan meal ideas as they are just tradional recipies that happen to be vegan:
https://bakinghermann.com/
The Assasins speghetti is very easy and fun to make
Since im just shamlessly plugging, I speak very minimal Spanish, but I have learned a lot recently from this creator, that is when Im not drooling over her kitchen set up(shes not vegan just fyi lol)
La Herencia de las Viudas Youtube
The question I should ask is, what kind of foods do you want to learn to prepare? How much do you already know? What ingredients do you have easy access to, and what your kitchen is equiped for? Do you want to bake a dessert or make a main meal?
There are so many places one can start.
I dont recommend a book, I recommend a 10" cast iron, a wooden spoon, and an internet connection, I jest in part, you’ll need a least one pot too ;)
Literally anyone wants help learning, I can do my best. If you can tell me what youd like to make, I can help. If one was in my kitchen asking, I’d absolutely start with some simple pasta dish. Fresh tomato sauce was the first thing I learned, but tastes and regions are vast.
Edit: and you can make fresh sauce with tinned tomatoes. They dont have to be fresh tomatoes truly. Budget is also a massive factor, there are so many different ways to go about cooking within your budget.
You may hate the argument, and I get that too, but many people just don’t have your level of knowledge. Many men I know for example, literally wouldn’t even know how to operate a stovetop. I’m not even trying to make the point that it’s the most common situation to not have a possible way to being vegan, I’m just trying to make the point that it is ludicrous to suggest that everyone can “EASILY” go fully vegan today. That makes so many assumptions that don’t fit the lives of many people.
See, this is exactly my point. No, they absolutely cannot. Over half of adults in America are functionally illiterate. I’m close to someone who teaches middle schoolers to read who struggle, usually with a combination of horrible educational background, low income situations, intellectual disability, or hardship caused by having to flee their country of origin, for their own safety.
Even if we had universally offered free classes to teach reading and cooking (we don’t, not even close), there still would be many people who wouldn’t even be able to take advantage of them, for various reasons.
What I’m really arguing here is against the absolutist attitude. It’s just not helpful and it sets you up mentally to be even more disappointed in people than you’d be without the attitude…
Edit: the fact that this comment is getting downvotes tells you all you need to know about why people have to choose veganism in spite of your horrible messaging about it, and never because of it.
What the fuck is it, to each ones ability and each ones need or some shit.
Help. You, person here, should help.
I dislike absolutist attitudes too.
Its just, just help.
edit, my neighbors mow thier grass to dirt. Shoulda seen this fuck yesterday across my street creating a dust storm just so he could sit on a tractor with a beer. This doesnt mean I do the same. Do you, in whatever ways you can, to be a helper. I literally sat 8 feet from a bunny hiding in the shaded tall clover while I swear this bun was watching this fool with me.
I mean even that’s not true. Probably 98% could learn these things. 2% is not zero. In reality though even if a much greater number of volunteer teachers existed, we’d still end up with an even more non-zero number.
I lived in a world of realistic optimism where it was possible that maybe ya know, up to 10% might vote for Donald Trump. Like 35% of eligible voters chose him and most of them still would even after he’s hurt them directly. And I started off “more negative” than you are now. There’s being optimistic and then there’s being mad at the world for not being perfect.
I can tell you are coming across some of these ideas for the first time, and you are having the exact same knee-jerk reactions that everyone does. You just filled at LEAST three separate tiles on a vegan bingo card.
You’re going to pull the “I’m too poor to not murder” shit with me? I live on 14k CAD a year. If I can do it, you can fucking do it. In reality, plant food is the cheapest food you can get.
Ohhhhhh, suddenly, despite having the flesh of vulnerable individuals still stuck in your teeth, you care SOOO MUCH about the poor mousies and butterflies. But that’s not what I said, is it? Those animals are not being exploited.
Of course I want to minimize the absolute harm I do, but that is a different subject. If you stopped and actually thought about it for a second, you would realize that the way to do that is to eat plants, because if you eat meat, an order of magnitude more plants have to be grown to feed those animals, and so you end up mulching up more mousies. So it’s an ignorant argument. You’ve literally never had a serious thought about these subjects in your life.
Spare me your thought-terminating cliches. If you are not emotionally prepared to process these ideas, go cope somewhere else.
What an unrelatable privilege-assed human. People live in food deserts all over America, as only one example. You can pretend they don’t all you want, but all you’ll do is give people the impression that vegans are out of touch assholes. For the record, and to reiterate, I support veganism. Just not people like you who lie and dodge truth because you need to feel superior. You’re absolutely working against what you claim to advocate for.
You may not be able to grasp the concept that many people live a long drive/walk from even a friggin grocery store but it’s still their reality which you’ve chosen to refuse an ounce of understanding toward.
Food deserts existing is completely irrelevant to your price point argument. You’re just jumping around to different cliches.
Are you truly trying to tell me that it’s cheaper to eat fast food on the daily as opposed to getting shelf stable rice/beans available in bulk? My wife and I eat for a week cheaper than a one of us getting a meat based meal from any restaurant.
Food deserts existing is completely irrelevant to your price point argument
It’s 100% exactly one of the situations I was referring to.
This is just pointless talking to you here. You’ve clearly made up your mind that not only is every non-vegan actively not choosing veganism, they do so even though their lives would be easier if they did.
I also notice how you’ve totally dropped the transportation angle once it failed to serve as a distraction from the thoughts and feelings that you are unwilling to process.
You are having trouble with this because you are trying to avoid confronting your own needless cruelty and violence. Until you own up to that, you are going to continuously seek out new distractions and excuses, never seriously engaging with the core issues.
No I didn’t drop anything. You’ve lost the thread.
you are trying to avoid confronting your own needless cruelty and violence
This is the kind of sanctimonious shit that guarantees many people who could choose veganism, never will. I noticed your addressed absolutely zero of the valid points I made. Kinda admitting I’m right to bring them up.
We can consider believing that only if we assume everyone is privileged enough to have constant access to vegan food. Which is a ridiculous assumption. Being vegan is great and I’m glad people choose to, but you must have a warped view of how others live if you think it’s not just possible, but “EASY” to have that diet. Billions of people cannot even afford the luxury of food that isn’t the cheapest and most processed food money can buy.
And this is not even addressing your “zero” assertion. Unless you carefully grow and harvest your own crops, all your meals ended up killing and hurting small animals that were attempting to live in a field where your meal was grown.
I hate this argument. I was vegan when I was living off $10 a week. I was vegan when I was in the homless center.
I cried my first night in that shelter. They provided dinner, it was cheap box mac n cheese, some meat I forget and broccoli, I started crying, a hormonal nursing mother, the cook noticed. He let me swap the meat and cheese for extra broccoli and there was always apples and oranges in a bowl for folks. Fridays, they let us bring in our own food and use the kitchen, once they set me up with food stamps, it was game on fridays for me.
I was vegan for my poorest years. Before being at the shelter, in them $10 a week days… Not proud of it, but I stole zuchini from a farm stand once. took three of them, I was truly starving. One day later, I saw random cans of tomatoes on the sidewalk in front of a church, took those too. made a nice meal I hadnt had in a while.
I ate can veg and beans as meals. I ate plain ass noodles with salt, I ate weird veg mashes I got from the foodbank and just threw it all in a pan with some rice.
Desperation teaches you many things.
No I couldnt afford vegan products, vegan meat or cheeses, but anything marked vegan is going to have a jacked price. The entire produce section, and a lot of the tinned section, the whole pasta section, is all vegan without having the little V printed on it.
Learning to cook is the way.
In fact I stumbled on veganism because I legit wanted cake, but had no milk, eggs or butter. Was too broke to buy them. I found a recipie for “Depression Cake” and that was my first vegan meal I ever made myself intentionally. I got into vegan baking, because it was cheaper. Then I just gave up all meat, and eventually cheese, because it was cheaper. Thats why I started, to save money. Then I started reading about factory farming practices. Dont watch Earthlings while nursing a newborn. Dont recommend, but that film changed my life. I was already plant bases (I always consumed local honey seasonally tbh) but Earthings solidified everything.
there any cookbooks/similar you’d reccomend?
I learned from my gaurdian growing up first, and then watching tons of early '00 Food Network. The only cookbook I have is Julia Childs, which Im not sure Id start with that. And if you are a noob, I absolutely recomend videos over books or written recipies. There are thousands apon thousands of cookbooks. Some folks Ive seen recomment Salt Fat Acid Heat often, like often often, ive never read it, but could be a start.
This series is good (maybe) for someone starting out. Jacques Pépin Cooking At Home YT
I also like the Post Punk Kitchen for vegan stuff: https://www.theppk.com/recipes/
I have found this website helpful for more vegan meal ideas as they are just tradional recipies that happen to be vegan: https://bakinghermann.com/ The Assasins speghetti is very easy and fun to make
Since im just shamlessly plugging, I speak very minimal Spanish, but I have learned a lot recently from this creator, that is when Im not drooling over her kitchen set up(shes not vegan just fyi lol) La Herencia de las Viudas Youtube
The question I should ask is, what kind of foods do you want to learn to prepare? How much do you already know? What ingredients do you have easy access to, and what your kitchen is equiped for? Do you want to bake a dessert or make a main meal?
There are so many places one can start.
I dont recommend a book, I recommend a 10" cast iron, a wooden spoon, and an internet connection, I jest in part, you’ll need a least one pot too ;)
Literally anyone wants help learning, I can do my best. If you can tell me what youd like to make, I can help. If one was in my kitchen asking, I’d absolutely start with some simple pasta dish. Fresh tomato sauce was the first thing I learned, but tastes and regions are vast.
Edit: and you can make fresh sauce with tinned tomatoes. They dont have to be fresh tomatoes truly. Budget is also a massive factor, there are so many different ways to go about cooking within your budget.
You may hate the argument, and I get that too, but many people just don’t have your level of knowledge. Many men I know for example, literally wouldn’t even know how to operate a stovetop. I’m not even trying to make the point that it’s the most common situation to not have a possible way to being vegan, I’m just trying to make the point that it is ludicrous to suggest that everyone can “EASILY” go fully vegan today. That makes so many assumptions that don’t fit the lives of many people.
Everyone can learn to read.
Everyone can learn to cook. Some need guidance. I try to help folks where I am able in this, in my daily life. Help your homies learn to cook.
We get no where on our own.
See, this is exactly my point. No, they absolutely cannot. Over half of adults in America are functionally illiterate. I’m close to someone who teaches middle schoolers to read who struggle, usually with a combination of horrible educational background, low income situations, intellectual disability, or hardship caused by having to flee their country of origin, for their own safety.
Even if we had universally offered free classes to teach reading and cooking (we don’t, not even close), there still would be many people who wouldn’t even be able to take advantage of them, for various reasons.
What I’m really arguing here is against the absolutist attitude. It’s just not helpful and it sets you up mentally to be even more disappointed in people than you’d be without the attitude…
Edit: the fact that this comment is getting downvotes tells you all you need to know about why people have to choose veganism in spite of your horrible messaging about it, and never because of it.
yes they can, with help.
with help
What the fuck is it, to each ones ability and each ones need or some shit.
Help. You, person here, should help.
I dislike absolutist attitudes too. Its just, just help.
edit, my neighbors mow thier grass to dirt. Shoulda seen this fuck yesterday across my street creating a dust storm just so he could sit on a tractor with a beer. This doesnt mean I do the same. Do you, in whatever ways you can, to be a helper. I literally sat 8 feet from a bunny hiding in the shaded tall clover while I swear this bun was watching this fool with me.
I mean even that’s not true. Probably 98% could learn these things. 2% is not zero. In reality though even if a much greater number of volunteer teachers existed, we’d still end up with an even more non-zero number.
this just seems like negative thinking, wrapped in realism, while I, an idealist, dream of hope.
Some folks cling to hope, some except reality as hopeless.
I lived in a world of realistic optimism where it was possible that maybe ya know, up to 10% might vote for Donald Trump. Like 35% of eligible voters chose him and most of them still would even after he’s hurt them directly. And I started off “more negative” than you are now. There’s being optimistic and then there’s being mad at the world for not being perfect.
I can tell you are coming across some of these ideas for the first time, and you are having the exact same knee-jerk reactions that everyone does. You just filled at LEAST three separate tiles on a vegan bingo card.
You’re going to pull the “I’m too poor to not murder” shit with me? I live on 14k CAD a year. If I can do it, you can fucking do it. In reality, plant food is the cheapest food you can get.
Ohhhhhh, suddenly, despite having the flesh of vulnerable individuals still stuck in your teeth, you care SOOO MUCH about the poor mousies and butterflies. But that’s not what I said, is it? Those animals are not being exploited.
Of course I want to minimize the absolute harm I do, but that is a different subject. If you stopped and actually thought about it for a second, you would realize that the way to do that is to eat plants, because if you eat meat, an order of magnitude more plants have to be grown to feed those animals, and so you end up mulching up more mousies. So it’s an ignorant argument. You’ve literally never had a serious thought about these subjects in your life.
Spare me your thought-terminating cliches. If you are not emotionally prepared to process these ideas, go cope somewhere else.
What an unrelatable privilege-assed human. People live in food deserts all over America, as only one example. You can pretend they don’t all you want, but all you’ll do is give people the impression that vegans are out of touch assholes. For the record, and to reiterate, I support veganism. Just not people like you who lie and dodge truth because you need to feel superior. You’re absolutely working against what you claim to advocate for.
PS; username checks all the way out.
Yeah cause rice, beans and produce are the single most expensive foods in existence. I take out a mortgage every time I get hungry. 😂🙄
You may not be able to grasp the concept that many people live a long drive/walk from even a friggin grocery store but it’s still their reality which you’ve chosen to refuse an ounce of understanding toward.
Food deserts existing is completely irrelevant to your price point argument. You’re just jumping around to different cliches.
Are you truly trying to tell me that it’s cheaper to eat fast food on the daily as opposed to getting shelf stable rice/beans available in bulk? My wife and I eat for a week cheaper than a one of us getting a meat based meal from any restaurant.
It’s 100% exactly one of the situations I was referring to.
This is just pointless talking to you here. You’ve clearly made up your mind that not only is every non-vegan actively not choosing veganism, they do so even though their lives would be easier if they did.
Okay. Explain how.
I’m also still waiting to hear how veganism is more expensive?
Or are we done here? Because it seems like you would rather stamp your feet, insist your right and call names instead of supporting your argument.
Yeah you’re clearly very open to being convinced that your incorrect characterization of what I said is true.
See previous comment. It was extremely clear.
I keep asking you to explain further, but all you respond with is insults. Why is that?
I keep telling you you are unreachable. If you were reachable you might get it
I also notice how you’ve totally dropped the transportation angle once it failed to serve as a distraction from the thoughts and feelings that you are unwilling to process.
You are having trouble with this because you are trying to avoid confronting your own needless cruelty and violence. Until you own up to that, you are going to continuously seek out new distractions and excuses, never seriously engaging with the core issues.
No I didn’t drop anything. You’ve lost the thread.
This is the kind of sanctimonious shit that guarantees many people who could choose veganism, never will. I noticed your addressed absolutely zero of the valid points I made. Kinda admitting I’m right to bring them up.