I’m ditching Ubuntu for Debian. But I’m wondering if I shouldn’t use Debian Testing instead of Stable to get more updated software.
Tuxedo OS is going to rebase their distro on Debian Testing, and I’ve heard that it’s actually pretty stable for a non-stable distro, which is why I’m considering it. But, I want your hear about your experience. What kind of trouble do you frequently run into? Any traps I should look out for?
I really want something that’s going to be no-fuss, solid as a rock and that’s simply going to get out of my way. I don’t have time to troubleshoot my PC after a whole ass day of troubleshooting some company’s software shit.
Before you tell me to switch to whatever other distro, I’m not interested. I want to use Debian. I’m used to it’s packaging system and how it’s set up and I know it’s a super stable distro. And I fully support the people behind it and their social contract.
As others have said I wouldn’t recommend testing as it doesn’t get security updates, however I personally run sid (unstable) and have for a long time now. At least since 2020 if I recall, it does occasionally break, albeit anecdotally less than my friends arch system, can’t comment on if that’s the distro or just our individual setups. The main reason I run it is because I like debian, I’m very familiar with apt, with its initramfs tools, with all of the debianisms but I wanted something rolling. I tried arch but it just wasn’t as comfy for me personally. That being said it is a bit like hard mode, there is no arch wiki, if you don’t do heavy customization that might be ok, sometimes I’ve wanted to tweak my initramfs and while I know the debian generator better than arch, there’s far less easily accessible documentation on it. In general it’s been such a good experience that I basically stopped distro hopping, it’s been my home now for a long time but I know I’m in the minority with that so take it as you will.
I’ve been running Debian Testing for decades, but I’ve recently switched back to Stable on my homelab server and started using Arch on my laptop.
Testing is not as stable as you want. It does occasionally suffer from problems that have to be fixed manually, just like in Unstable. In reality my system was mostly running Testing, with some manually pulled packages from Unstable or even manually pinned on Stable. This was sometimes necessary to solve specific problems, particularly security fixes that weren’t available in Testing yet. I followed all the security mailing lists and acted upon them manually to stay somewhat safe, which is a decent chunk of extra work.
In recent years it has become less and less important what software versions your distro ships with, since you can easily run software from Flatpak, homebrew, or even directly compiled Go or Rust software. Tools exist to keep all of that up-to-date automatically. In practice that solves all my cases where I wanted to run a different version than Stable offered, so it’s more secure that way.
If you want to run a different version of something as foundational as Gnome you’ve basically picked the wrong distro. It would be such a PITA to change that manually, with tons of dependencies on other stuff. Switching to a rolling distro would be a far more logical step, which is why I run Arch on my laptop.
In short: don’t use Testing. It wasn’t meant for what you’re trying to accomplish and you’re going to have a bad time (security + more manual intervention needed than you want). Either accept older software and the peace of mind that brings (running Stable is REALLY easy, everything is sorted automatically) or go for something completely different, like a rolling distro.
Personally I’m pretty wary of the new wave of distros basing themselves on Debian Testing. I have a feeling that they don’t realise what they’re getting themselves in to, and that they can’t offer the same level of support as Debian does for their Stable branch.
My almost 20 years old experience is that it’s the worst of all Debian worlds, and none of them are good in any case.
You would be neither getting distro’s promised stability, nor would you be close enough to getting upstream’s fixes like sid/unstable.
I vaguely remember Gnome’s bug tracker filled with duplicate reports about crashes that are long fixed upstream, but also don’t trigger in either stable or sid Debian packages. They all came from Debian Testing. Gnome must have been very happy with Debian enabling the crash reporter in their packaging!
Do note that sid/unstable itself becomes as shit as Testing whenever the next Debian release is around the corner, as the project freezes the world in that period (or used to at least).
If you want the imagined stability you guessed you would get from Testing, you can use Ubuntu. At least with that you won’t get packages that are left crashing for everyone. Or honestly, if you’re on a desktop, just use Arch. The supposed meme about using Arch exists for a reason.
@ISO @ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace My 30 years of experience tells me everything you said is wrong.
I was referring to a 20 year old experience, not 20 years of experience. But I’m glad that triggered you to do a known variation of ad verecundiam.
@ISO Go back and reread it; I did not do an ad verecundiam. I think you are an AI.
how ironic
Please don’t use Debian Testing. It doesn’t receive security updates in a timely manner. I previously made a post about it:
Unlike Debian Unstable or Debian Stable, there is no fast track for vulnerability fixes needed into Debian testing. In my post above, I note that Debian stable and unstable received a fix for a very severe vulnerability. However, Debian testing was left to dry for almost a week, for a known critical vulnerability.
If you want more updated applications, you can use tools like flatpak, distrobox, appimage, or nix to layer newer applications onto a system of any Linux distro.
If you want newer base packages and underlying utilities, like a newer desktop environment, you can get stable distros that provide this, like Fedora, or Opensuse Leap.
Unfortunately it is still in Beta, but Opensuse Slowroll is OpenSuse’s solution, a rolling release that delays package updates to test and iron out bugs before pushing updated versions out. It’s somewhat of an in between a rolling release and a stable distro, and a very promising model.
You can also just directly use a rolling release distro. Debian Unstable isn’t as bad as it sounds. Unstable doesn’t mean unreliable or prone to breakages. Unstable just means that the bugs deal with will constantly be changing, instead of dealing with the same bugs all the time.
But please don’t use Debian Testing. It’s in the name, it’s only for testing purposes.
Oh man ok. Thank you so much for this.
I guess I’ll stick with stable. Even if that means missing out on latest KDE Plasma features. I can wait a couple of years.
I ran debian testing for a while and I agree with this advice. I hadn’t bothered to read that the debian website itself said testing isn’t meant to be used like I was using it lol.
I think Debian stable is awesome and it’s what I’m running atm, but for people who want or need newer packages I agree it’d be better to go with a rolling release or at least with a distribution that has a quicker release cycle (like Fedora).
I get the advice that you can use flatpak if you want more up to date applications but what if I want an up to date version of gnome? :/ as an UI UX nerd honestly I care more about getting to use the best version of the desktop interface I’m using.
I wish there was a good totally independent distro for my needs. Debian gives an old version of your DE and doesnt ship vanilla packages, arch is very roll-your-own and more likely to experience breakage than fits me, void has honestly been the closest. I’m just not really fit for trying to set up and maintain a minimal distro, and honestly with gnome building more and more sysd dependencies I dunno if they’ll keep building work-arounds so gnome is usable. Sadly I’m very tied to gnome, in spite of the project being managed… Differently from how I would like to see it managed 🥲
To add to this, there is always the debian backports repository, which receives major updates for things such as office, BTRFS progs and other common software.
You can also just directly use a rolling release distro. Debian Unstable isn’t as bad as it sounds. Unstable doesn’t mean unreliable or prone to breakages. Unstable just means that the bugs deal with will constantly be changing, instead of dealing with the same bugs all the time.
“Unstable” is one of the terms in the IT, that has multiple meanings. Those who don’t know, might confuse the term “unstable” with “broken”, when it actually means “Changing” (at a high level spoken). Its not about the bugs changing, but more about compatibility and changes that drastically could alter a system. Regardless of the model, security issues and often bugs are still being patched. For a “stable” distribution, this would be all it does.
OpenSuse’s solution, a rolling release that delays package updates to test and iron out bugs before pushing updated versions out.
Kind of what Manjaro does with the Arch base. Could be called slowroll too, as it is a rolling release with packages holding back and releasing them at once after some time. The idea is to test them before release, but I’m not sure if the Manjaro team does or did a great job at this in the past (years ago when I used it). The big problem with Manjaro was if you used the AUR, which always expected the current and newest packages without holding back. I guess OpenSUSE does not have such a problem, right?
I’ve been having good luck with MX Linux. It’s based on Debian Stable, and mostly just has some extra nice tools ontop of Debian Stable and that’s it. The only problems I’ve been having have been minor, and I think more general KDE+Wayland with HDR and VRR bugs you’d probably hit on most distros.
Well if you want no fuss solid stable, then you should probably use Debian stable and not testing.
What more updated software do you find you need that’s missing from stable? Any software I use where I want the fancy new current features, I install via flatpak, external repo, pip, compile from source, or whatever. I can’t think of any time where I went “oh but I can’t get that on stable”.
You can start on stable and upgrade to testing later on if you really want to. But you can’t downgrade from testing to stable without reinstalling.
Mostly for the more up to date KDE Plasma desktop.
I’ve heard that even testing is pretty table. Set up with BTRFS, Timeshift, and grub-btrfs I think I’d be pretty safe to rollback if any problems should occur after an update.
Yeah that’ll probably work. There isn’t a good way to get newer KDE on stable. You’d probably just have to use a different distro that tries to be stable while also pulling new packages faster. Maybe fedora or a derivative.
I’ve been running Debian as a daily driver for many many years now and I pretty much always use SID. Once a month I get a package held back and have to do some manual ‘apt-get install’. That’s it. No other issues.
I’ve installed Debian with the sid repo once after using stable for years. That’s where I’ve had my first random system crash where everything just halts like on Windows. It also was a pretty bare system at that point, nothing special installed or configured.
Never again.
Sounds like bad luck. I don’t think I ever had one in the 10+ years I’ve been running SID on various different computers.
Yep also run Debian Sid for more than 20+ years and only thing I would add is install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges they help to know when you should wait on a package or not or when to pin or not.
I switched to forky (current testing) the other day for the updated nvidia drivers (did not solve my issue) and it turns out that GNOME defaults to wayland. Took some time to figure that out.
Firstly, please don’t use Debian testing. It doesn’t receive security updates in a timely manner: https://programming.dev/post/20084040
Secondly, it looks like the versions of Nvidia drivers provided in Debian testing and Debian stable are the same:
Perfectly capable of handling it, thanks. And yeah, i noticed that a bit late.
I can’t comment on Debian Testing.
I just run stable and pull cutting edge stuff from back-ports or flathub.
For some fancy stuff there’s usually a .deb file to download from the official site.
If I’m really desperate, there’s always piping a curl command to sudo, if I really really trust the provider.
Yeah, but I’m looking for having a more up to date KDE Plasma desktop with newer features.
Oh, yeah. None of my usual techniques would help get newer KDE on stable.
I guess there’s a chance it’s in back-ports, or will get there soon.
I’m pretty new to Debian testing, but so far it’s felt similar to Ubuntu. Probably cos it’s still Gnome. I’ve come across one app that’s not supported (proton vpn). I’ve also had a couple of system crashes, but my computer was acting weird before Debian, so it might be the hardware.
Proton VPN doesn’t work on Debian testing? Is it due to dependencies?
Have you tried the flathub version? (Though it’s not officially developed by Proton, so I dunno if you should use it.)
This could be a dealbreaker because I use Proton VPN.
I used proton vpn on Debian for a while just fine. Not exactly the same, but you can still set up the GUI app.Edit: Don’t mind me lol I remember having issues with testing. Just read/processed everything.
No problem! :)
The GUI/CLI apps don’t yet work, but the firefox extension does. Also, you can probably work around it by using the wireguard config detailed on the proton website, which is reasonably straightforward.
and yes it’s dependencies. some python metadata package
deleted by creator
I went ahead and installed in in a VM, and Proton VPN has a native package available directly in Debian’s repo in testing!
It works perfectly.
Would you mind linking me to the instructions you used? It still doesn’t work for me








