- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/23/cop-city-protester-phone
consumerrights.wiki/w/Common_Questions,Arguments,&_Responses_when_discussing_Flock_Surveillance
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Freaked out when I realized I had the exact same YouTube recommendations as Louis 2 hours ago.
more evidence that we really should be finding more effective ways to fight back. nazis like karp and thiel are already openly saying they want to enforce control and fascism globally. this is only going to get worse.
what would get people en masse into open alternatives? massive smear campaigns? massive ddos campaigns? is their own enshitification and endless profit seeking the key to bring people over?
we need our heads together, this is gonna be another front in the class war and we cannot let them build 1984 unchallenged in front of our eyes.
Simple tutorials.
I know that a decent chunk of the privacy/Linux folk have that same “I had to suffer and you should too” boomer mindset, and that’s like 80% of the reason I haven’t stopped using Google and Microsoft.
I’m not a software dev, but I do have a job and a life and shit. There is only so much time I can spend trying to figure that shit out before I decide it’s not worth it.
I’ve been using Linux for 20 years. I need a lot of help and I’ve never had any people be dicks about it or seen anyone else do it to others.
You know that XKCD comic about the assumpitions of experts? Thats what you sound like.
You may not be an expert in your eyes but compared to that commenter, you are, and when you speak to actual experts to find help you are already able to use the language that opens the door to that help. While to others its akin to searching for something when you don’t have the key words or phrase that will lead to the appropriate results and you just get nothing.
This person wants things like an info-graphic to help them get to where youbare or somewhere close.
the internet is full of them already though. lemmy frontpage is sometimes full of them.
You’re not wrong.
But I’d like to point out that I said “I’m struggling to find a decent tutorial that works for me” and your response was “skill issue lol”.
Do you actually want people to switch to linux and graphene, or do you wanna laugh at incompetent normies?
you are taking offense for something i didn’t say.
what i mean is in a world with tech controlled by oligarchs who actively make it as hard as possible to get rid of them, you will have to somewhat know what you are doing. i see no way around this, but hope one exists.
furthermore, i can’t guess the unique way a given individual uses computers or their needs, and few people will ever tell me when they hit a snag. you are even one step further than most people who choose not to care.
as for me, keeping tech “private” is a chore and i do know it’s even worse for newbies but we also have a life and a demanding job.
Once again, I agree. Perhaps my previous phrasing was a bit harsh, I’m not taking offense. In my judo practice, there’s this idea of “stupid uke”, an opponent who intentionally acts like dead weight. Living training dummy for learning new moves or perfecting your form.
I am, to some extent, playing stupid uke right now.
Accessibility to normies is a common problem I see in smaller projects, even minor stuff like videogames. I’m thinking of a specific example right now, where the (small) dev team is clearly very talented…and very much falling into the expertise trap. Basically need to learn an entire programming language to play the game, which is not marketed as that kind of game.
I recognize that I’m ahead of the curve in this sense, and I will figure it out one day, probably very soon. I just want to point out that accessibility will be a major factor, and that this is something that privacy-focused software will have to reckon with sooner rather than later.
here’s a good real world scenario you might already know:
phones with the oem operating system spy on you, and the ultimate way to get rid of it is changing the os. how do we make it accessible if the manufacturers are making the process intentionally obtuse and difficult, and more than that, different for every device out there? how do we make sure every model (and counting) is supported when they make every phone a little different requiring many specialized volunteer work hours on each?
I’m ahead of the curve in this sense, and I will figure it out one day
you just hit my main point here. if people in general understood why this is a problem as much as you do, they would care enough to look for the stuff we already managed to put out there and act on it, just like you are.
it’s not that simple though is it? people seem to think there are more pros than cons for buying into their shtick and that privacy is meaningless. they are the ones to ultimately hand over their data to apps they know are spying on them because they do so openly at this point.
this can be changed, because it was changed into this in the first place by the powers that be, question is how.
Honestly tutorials and documentation are a major positive for Linux over Windows in my experience. The handful of “just works” Linux distros are a great entry point because 1) they do often just work for basic needs, and 2) they often have forums with new users asking newb questions that you might also have, i.e. they are likely speaking a language you might understand (unlike relative gibberish you might read on Arch forums). When I have Windows issues, I’ve most often landed on a Microsoft forum with some bot asking if I’ve turned it off and on again, and never reaching a resolution.
I do agree that toxic Linux users/commentors are a problem for the community, and I don’t subscribe to the notion that the new generation has to experience ‘pain’ that I did. But there’s also no getting around the discomfort of having to learn something new, even when it works 100% as intended. You will have to put time and effort into it, and you will have frustrations. Personally, I’ve crested the hill where I have less frustrations on Linux than Windows, and I’m glad I put that time in because I’ve got a lot of years left in me to enjoy the lower stress and greater freedom.
Thank you yes please. I just want to know how to use Wine or whatever so I can use some of my Windows programs on my Linux machine. Especially my games from Steam and GOG. But also want to continue to rip my bluray and dvds. Also be able to get my Audiobook from Audible to MP3. I have Windows program that does that but no Linux one.
Enshitification has done enough to get me off Reddit, I personally think very simple entry level tutorials on how to best personally disconnect from the surveillance apparatus, myself I am not computer savvy at all whatsoever so I have a long road ahead of me, too. I’m young but still old school, I like printing zines and putting them out into the world physically, maybe something easily printable telling people
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What the problem is
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How to solve it themselves
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How to help others become aware subsequently help them.
Of course, online messaging will work too, just needs to be very very wide spread.
i agree with awareness helping and i agree with the value of letting enshitification frustrate people out of big tech, but the state of technology right now is such that sometimes these solutions are impractical to make so easy for non-tech inclined people to effortlessly do.
Straight up making these programs easier for tech illiterate people like me is probably the only solution. I am already very interested in this stuff but the learning curve is so huge I never bothered. When I was like 13 I got all into computer science then immediately was shoved out by my lack of intelligence in the subject and how confusing it is. I shouldn’t have to be tech inclined to play video games on a computer. Actually that is one of the reasons I stopped playing games for 10+ years and eventually just bought a console that’s 200% easier than any computer
the big thing stopping that is the deliberate effort the companies put into making the process as painful as possible.
we do try to make it as easy as we can despite how a vocal minority of toxic users act, but i don’t really see a way around their roadblocks. they make all of the hardware after all and they dictate how some of this stuff works.
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something I feel is important to note: they added CSAM to the list of things they were searching for in order to gain access to his phone.
when the phone was clean (due to the wipe), they did not follow up on that charge
if they truly believed this person to be in possession of CSAM, a warrant should’ve been issued by now to follow up on that very serious accusation. instead, they go after the destruction of evidence.
because they have nothing on this man, and it was a fabricated excuse to gain access to his phone.
They’re doubly mad because they were trying to plant the CSAM
Yeah this thing is almost always followed up by a raid on their homes, their work computers etc.
Meanwhile they keep covering up that ranch in New Meico and hiding the list of all the murdering pedophile rapists.
They use CSAM as an excuse to attack the innocent, while protecting the people who are actually involved in it.
DARVO, the rot of narcissism runs our country now
in the burgerreich, when you complain about the government, you get accused of child abuse
Double standards much?
Release the Epstine files.
Apple IOS user accused of chil… Google Android user accused of chi…
fuck off.
My boy is a hero for not allowing his contacts to become states evidence
The US Department of Justice is attempting to prosecute an Atlanta resident in connection with the movement against the police training center known as Cop City because he had GrapheneOS on his phone
Experts said it may be the first time the law has been aimed at the operating system
What clown wrote this? It has nothing to do with GOS specifically, it has to do with destruction of evidence. Not trying to suggest that this person is guilty at all, it’s just very strange phrasing. I guess “Protestor charged with destruction of evidence for deleting phone contents” gets less clicks than “protestor charged with running iLlEgAl operating system!”.
The case, which had its first hearing on Monday, centers on a little-known US federal statute that makes it a crime to destroy property in an effort to prevent it from being seized.
Is it really “little known” that destroying evidence is illegal?
Is it really “little known” that destroying evidence is illegal?
I suspect you are attacking the article’s lack of awareness and precision, but I applaud them for not echoing the fascist government’s carefully crafted and fictitious propaganda narrative.
The government attempted to illegally and unconstitutionally search a person’s personal property. They had no cause, no suspicion, and no warrant. There was no evidence to begin with and no evidence to delete. What a person does with their own property and data is not the business of the government outside of due process. No evidence was deleted because nothing was evidence. The accusation is a work of fiction meant to punish someone for exercising their rights in the face of abuse.
Or to put it simply. The Government can’t blanket search your property for a crime. They need a specific crime and probable cause. Not just, “We don’t like you. Let me see your phone so I can find something illegal.”
I suspect you are attacking the article’s lack of awareness and precision
Uhhhh nope, I was attacking the article’s notion that few people know that destruction of evidence is illegal, as I said.
There was no evidence to begin with and no evidence to delete
How could you possibly know that?
It was a targeted harassment search into a political nuisance, not an actual warranted investigation. There was no charge. They let him walk away. Can’t have evidence if there was no crime.
It was a targeted harassment search into a political nuisance, not an actual warranted investigation
There is no difference, legally.
Can’t have evidence if there was no crime
Can’t know if there was a crime if the evidence was destroyed. Imagine if a corporation were being investigated for some sort of crime and they just went and deleted any evidence of it. Does your statement still apply?
If there’s no suspicion of a crime, there’s no legal search. So no evidence to gather.
ok but…there was. Regardless of whether it’s legitimate.
No there wasn’t.
If you have mushrooms in your car it is not evidence unless it is discovered during a lawful search as required by due process. Cops cannot just randomly search cars or any other property without cause.
Hypothetical things are not evidence, regardless of whether they may or may not exist. The phone and any data on it was not evidence because the authorities had no legal or constitutional right or cause to search it.
Since the phone was wiped, there is no data. This means even the hypothetical was-never-evidence data still is not evidence, because it is literally the absence of evidence. This is as much “destruction of evidence” as the last time you emptied your computers trash folder.
If you have mushrooms in your car it is not evidence unless it is discovered during a lawful search
If a cop has a warrant to search your car for mushrooms and you then burn the car to the ground, that’s destruction of evidence.
If the IRS subpoenas your tax documents and you throw them in a fire, that’s destruction of evidence.
Anything deemed to be pertinent to an investigation is evidence.
There was no warrant. And in this scenario the piggies accidentally burned the car to the ground while performing an illegal search. Messy example that doesn’t line up 1:1.
😂 As if the police doesn’t abuse innocent activists for state repression
For evidence to possibly exist, you need to be charged with a crime first. Evidence exists within context of a charge. No charge - no evidence.
LOL what!? So you’re saying law enforcement has never obtained evidence without first charging someone with a crime!?
E: if you’re downvoting this, you are a moron. You cannot charge someone with a crime without any evidence. The evidence comes first.
I’m saying you cant “destroy evidence” if you haven’t been charged with anything since at that point it isn’t considered evidence.
This is just complete insanity. You live in a fictional universe. That’s not how any of this works.
“Ah yes, that piece of paper you wrote something on a week ago and threw away that we have no idea what was on it? That is actually now evidence, and since you disposed of it you are now being charged with destruction of evidence.”
The way things are going it might actually become that way. And then you’ll see true insanity.
No. They can’t charge him with data destruction because it was the officer that destroyed the data.
You’re right, they will not be able to charge him with anything. This is an excellent case to set a precedent that this tech is totally legal.
That’s not correct, according to the first sentence of the article from 404.
The U.S. government has charged Samuel Tunick with allegedly typing in a passcode to wipe his phone
deleted by creator
They better have proof or bring lots of money to the defamation lawsuit.
They can just manufacture proof these days, that’s the real risk here
