Use of single-sex toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards in England, Scotland and Wales is now restricted according to a person’s birth sex, rather than the gender with which they identify.
Use of single-sex toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards in England, Scotland and Wales is now restricted according to a person’s birth sex, rather than the gender with which they identify.
This is the solution of choice of those who don’t really respect trans identities but want to propose a reasonable-sounding but completely impractical solution they know will never be implemented. Anything to keep from just saying “trans women are women and belong in the women’s restroom.”
Excuse me but, what makes genderless bathrooms impossible to implement or impractical? I do get that the bathroom issue is just superficial and going genderless wouldn’t be a real solution to the hate and bigotry, but I’ve always found gendered toilets quite stupid.
Because instead of just going with the easy solution of letting trans people use the bathroom for their gender, (which we’ve been doing for generations), you propose a solution that would require the entire society to get onboard with a complete reformation of how public restrooms work.
Instead of the simple and expedient solution that works just fine, you set up an impossible goal that will never be accepted by society.
Reality check. Most people don’t want there to only be gender neutral bathrooms. I think you know this which is why you’re setting this as a solution to this “problem.”
How about we just let trans people use the right bathrooms today, and you can go off on your gender neutral bathroom crusade if you like. But leave us out of it.
First, you’re confusing me with the other commenter. I just asked about what you said.
Second, you didn’t answered that question.
Third, gender neutral restrooms, bathrooms, toilets, latrines, outhouses… have been the norm for most of human history, gendered ones are the recent invention not the other way around.
I don’t know, honestly. Most people don’t have gendered bathrooms in their homes, do they? Also, what I do know is that ‘most people’, quote, “favor laws that require transgender individuals to use bathrooms that correspond to their sex at birth”, so I don’t think ‘most people’ arguments are of help here when it’s well known that most people will just go along with the status quo without a second thought.
Going back a couple of years the sole concept of considering trans people would be problematic and impossible to deal with. Going way further we had problems with race as “coloured” people had their own bathroom. The thing about all of this is we have the power (as demonstrated historically) to make the impossible possible.
There is no bigotry involved here, in fact it is reversed: as sex isn’t binary - its more of a spectrum. And in terms of simplicity, what’s simpler than a singular bathroom - this pointless division is what really is makes this complex.
The problem is that this isn’t the easy solution because asshats pass legislation like this. Honestly the same people that don’t want gender neutral bathrooms are the same people that don’t want trans people to use certain restrooms. Gender neutral bathrooms are not the problem you are making them out to be.
We had stupid bill like this at the state level a few years ago that was widely unpopular and repealed a year later. Most businesses labeled their restrooms as unisex to protest the bill and support the trans community.
Trans women are apparently only women when it comes to showing their nipples.
Trans women are women (except when they’re puppies, which is shockingly often. Then they’re bitches), but gender segregated restrooms are inefficient. You can skip the whole issue and undercut the basis of that nonsense transphobia.
Because gendered restrooms are bullshit inefficiency to start with.
Ok. Then go have your crusade and leave trans people out of it. I just don’t like seeing our civil rights being made contingent on massive change to the social structure that very few people would be down with.
It’s like those yahoos who say, “we wouldn’t have all these problems with trans acceptance if we just abolished gender!”
Nobody complains anywhere I’ve seen them, including at the local queer spaces. It turns out they’re also the only solution for non-binary people, who I’m sure you care about very much.
Technically true, but that’s not why they’re saying it and that’s a slightly bigger ask than ‘think no differently in the immediate term, remove some signs’. If these people cared what you fucking wanted and responded to rational arguments this would never have been a problem in the first place, but you’re still Jere asking them to think differently/at all.
That’s what you sound like here. You’re panicking and screaming about the things your lying liar opponents say rather than trying to think strategically about what actually effects the ways they behave.
We are on the edge of god damn war with unthinking rage fueled privilege monsters and you’re still trying to batter them with your ego and ‘what I want’. No subtlety no manipulation no strategy not even ‘I want it all, surrender not an inch’. Just tantrum.
Edit: never mind. They’re a bigot who hates non binary people.
We’re not talking about having gender-neutral bathrooms. We’re talking about ONLY having gender neutral bathrooms. If you think the broad society is going to accept only having gender neutral bathrooms, you’re delusional.
You think this is a less acceptable demand than “think of me as I wish to be thought of”? “Don’t be an irrational insane bucket of duck cunt”?
And again, the only solution that works for nb’s.
Sorry, the vast majority of society is never going to accept purely gender-neutral restrooms. Hell, I prefer having gendered restrooms. I support installing single-occupancy gender-neutral restrooms everywhere practical, but 90% of the population is never going to support completely abolishing gendered restrooms. The nonbinary folks will just have to make peace with that. Being trans is about your own body and gender; it’s not about controlling others. I support building systems that let nonbinary people move through the world. But accommodating nonbinary people does not mean everyone becomes nonbinary.
Only if someone is some sort of bizarre nonbinary supremacist.
You think the vast majority of TERF islanders will be more willing to see you as you wish to be seen before they switch most/all buildings to more efficient egalitarian use that even cis people benefit from, that frees architects developers and business operators all over the world from a lot of annoying local ordinances about equality of bathrooms between genders? Like they already do in many places?
Say nonbinary people should have a right to exist in society and their identities are valid, they’re just as trans as binary trans people, and deserve the same level of safety and validation as everyone else. If you wouldn’t mind.
Absolutely. You’re proposing a complete reorientation of how people of all genders interact with restrooms. I’m proposing simply using the exact same system people have used for generations without trouble. I’m advocating for the pre-trans panic status quo. You’re advocating for radical social transformation. I don’t need any proof that my vision is possible, as I’m advocating for what has already existed!
If you wouldn’t mind, please don’t make bad-faith interpretations of what I wrote.
Non-binary inclusion does not mean binary supremacy. I’m fine with having gender neutral restrooms wherever possible. And I’m fine with nonbinary people using whatever restroom they’re comfortable with. This is nonbinary inclusion
What you’re advocating is nonbinary supremacy, where the whole culture has to live as nonbinary. We can’t have any gendered spaces at all, as that wouldn’t be accommodating nonbinary people.
Again, inclusion refers to what you are allowed to participate in. You don’t get to tell other how to live their lives and whitewash it in language of inclusivity.
You’re an enby supremacist.
Enby inclusion: we build as many gender-neutral restrooms as we can, everyone can use the bathroom they’re most comfortable with.
Enby supremacy: gender must be abolished entirely. Everyone must be nonbinary. Gendered restrooms must be ended completely. Any recognition of binary identities is bigotry.
You seem to be suffering from a binary-phobia problem.