I tried using the web again last night with a browser extension that toggles off JavaScript. Out of like 8 websites I tried to use, literally all of them were broken.
So it’s not even just convenience. It’s that practically no one is building websites to work without JavaScript. I think that sucks, but I cannot change it by just avoiding most websites in defiance.
I don’t know what websites you’re using that still work without JavaScript, but they’re in the minority from what I can tell.
practically no one is building websites to work without JavaScript. I think that sucks
I legitimately believe that most websites suck, and that is one of the reasons. If I enable javascript. I still find that the vast majority of sites suck.
I cannot change it by just avoiding most websites in defiance.
We cannot change much in this world. I don’t believe that I’m changing things by avoiding these sites which I don’t like. I can hope that more people will realize the same things I do and join me in avoiding such sites, but without numbers there’s nothing to be gained except personal comfort in the moment.
I don’t know what websites you’re using that still work without JavaScript, but they’re in the minority from what I can tell.
Well yeah, cuz (imo) most sites suck, lol. But even though they’re in the minority (like me, lol), there are lots of good sites which work very well without javascripts, like distrowatch, duckduckgo, feditrends, invidious, lemmy (for the most part), librey, mbin, redlib, rimgo, searxng, wikipedia, and lots of smaller niche sites. Lots of news sites are also pretty accessible, especially the ones that work with firefox reader mode. So, that list covers multiple options for search engines, fediverse platforms, mainstream social media frontends, wikipedia (and various other wikis on totally different sites), and lots of news & informational sites.
Some sites that don’t work quite as well are able to be fixed by simply switching from from “Basic Page Style” to “No Page Style” with Alt+vYN (Menu -> View -> Page Style -> No Page Style). Lots of sites which appear totally blank can be fixed with that method. Granted, they don’t look so good, but the information is accessible. But that’s an example of a not-so-good site which is helped by disallowing javascipts and correcting the page. The truly good sites don’t require fucking with them like that.
So anyway, yeah. idk. I don’t see the issue. The sites which don’t work are the sites I have no interest in using. Allowing javascripts doesn’t tend to make them better in my view. And I think the stuff that legitimately needs scripts are better accessed as standalone apps (like matrix and other instant messengers which support end-to-end encryption). I think it’s better to use FOSS apps which have been reviewed by OS maintainers and others than to blindly allow sites to execute scripts through a browser.
But again, this is all just my perspective, my own experiences and opinions shaped from them. We each walk our own paths and have our own wants and needs, along with our own likes and dislikes. I just hope I’m able to be better understood by others who otherwise would have no idea why I and some others have chosen this path for ourselves.
It’s just a very confusing thing to claim, that’s all. If 90%+ of the web doesn’t work with js off then you’re either predetermining that you just won’t use 90% of the web. You’ve decided that ahead of time, so you cannot really say “these sites suck” because you haven’t even been able to use them. If you had said “I try not to use JavaScript dependent sites” that makes sense. But the way you’re presenting it, you don’t have any trouble and just use most sites. Which I happen to know is not possible.
If 90%+ of the web doesn’t work with js off then you’re either predetermining that you just won’t use 90% of the web.
You put the “either” part, but I think you forgot to put the “or” part, which in my case here is that I used to allow javascripts for all sites and access all of the worst most popular ones but have come to realize over years of experience that the javascript-dependent ones are extremely likely to be god-awful experiences (to me). So I don’t tend to bother with them anymore. That doesn’t mean I don’t occasionally get curious and investigate. It’s just that my investigations do not deviate from my expectations. So I continue to conclude the same: that things have not improved (and in fact, they have gotten worse over time).
You’ve decided that ahead of time, so you cannot really say “these sites suck” because you haven’t even been able to use them.
Based on my past experiences and random experiments, yes, I continue to conclude that those types of sites suck. The commonality is the requirement of the user to allow javascripts, which I see as forced self-harm at this point.
But the way you’re presenting it, you don’t have any trouble and just use most sites. Which I happen to know is not possible.
Idk how it seems that I actively use most sites. I would think that’s impossible of any human. I recognize patterns, and the one that’s relevant here is the quality/value (to me) of javascript-dependent sites.
Without javascripts, I get neat and tidy static pages that load super fast. I can have dozens of them loaded in separate tabs on my Librem 5 or Pinephone, which only have 3GB of RAM. It’s nice and comfy.
With javascripts, I get a bad experience involving
ads
trackers
cookie notices
popups & overlays
obnoxious “chat” features
long wait times for everything to load
new elements pushing other elements around as they load
pages which automatically reload/refresh without my consent
useless effects like blur which slow down the pages significantly
“infinite scroll” pages which fuck up my calm navigation of the page
poorly-designed pages which aren’t easy to fix with things like web dev tools or ublock origin
captchas
etc. etc. etc.
There are so many things I hate about these types of sites, and the ones which require javascript tend to have at least a few of these awful “features”. And another major bad experience is the first one: being given a demand in order to access the page, being required to allow javascript, especially the condescending messages that are like “sorry this is required” or “you must allow javascript”. The demands are toxic/hostile and then the javascript elements themselves are an affront. The whole experience is always terrible (to me). I just want to get what I was seeking and leave in a rush to gtfo of there. It’s never pleasant for me.
Hopefully this was more clear and to the point, but if there’s anything else, please let me know and I’ll address it. I am probably the most talkative person on this platform when I actually have people and a topic.
Though, sorry again for another wall of text. It is really easy for me to just keep going and is kinda difficult to hold myself back. And again, I don’t intend for any of this to come across in a negative light. It can be difficult to create a text-based vibe that matches what I’m trying to convey sometimes. Probably doesn’t help that I’m almost always sleep-deprived.
And now I’m struggling to finish this comment, so how about an emoji
🩷
I tried using the web again last night with a browser extension that toggles off JavaScript. Out of like 8 websites I tried to use, literally all of them were broken.
So it’s not even just convenience. It’s that practically no one is building websites to work without JavaScript. I think that sucks, but I cannot change it by just avoiding most websites in defiance.
I don’t know what websites you’re using that still work without JavaScript, but they’re in the minority from what I can tell.
I legitimately believe that most websites suck, and that is one of the reasons. If I enable javascript. I still find that the vast majority of sites suck.
We cannot change much in this world. I don’t believe that I’m changing things by avoiding these sites which I don’t like. I can hope that more people will realize the same things I do and join me in avoiding such sites, but without numbers there’s nothing to be gained except personal comfort in the moment.
Well yeah, cuz (imo) most sites suck, lol. But even though they’re in the minority (like me, lol), there are lots of good sites which work very well without javascripts, like distrowatch, duckduckgo, feditrends, invidious, lemmy (for the most part), librey, mbin, redlib, rimgo, searxng, wikipedia, and lots of smaller niche sites. Lots of news sites are also pretty accessible, especially the ones that work with firefox reader mode. So, that list covers multiple options for search engines, fediverse platforms, mainstream social media frontends, wikipedia (and various other wikis on totally different sites), and lots of news & informational sites.
Some sites that don’t work quite as well are able to be fixed by simply switching from from “Basic Page Style” to “No Page Style” with
Alt+vYN(Menu -> View -> Page Style -> No Page Style). Lots of sites which appear totally blank can be fixed with that method. Granted, they don’t look so good, but the information is accessible. But that’s an example of a not-so-good site which is helped by disallowing javascipts and correcting the page. The truly good sites don’t require fucking with them like that.So anyway, yeah. idk. I don’t see the issue. The sites which don’t work are the sites I have no interest in using. Allowing javascripts doesn’t tend to make them better in my view. And I think the stuff that legitimately needs scripts are better accessed as standalone apps (like matrix and other instant messengers which support end-to-end encryption). I think it’s better to use FOSS apps which have been reviewed by OS maintainers and others than to blindly allow sites to execute scripts through a browser.
But again, this is all just my perspective, my own experiences and opinions shaped from them. We each walk our own paths and have our own wants and needs, along with our own likes and dislikes. I just hope I’m able to be better understood by others who otherwise would have no idea why I and some others have chosen this path for ourselves.
(also, sorry if my walls of text are annoying.)
It’s just a very confusing thing to claim, that’s all. If 90%+ of the web doesn’t work with js off then you’re either predetermining that you just won’t use 90% of the web. You’ve decided that ahead of time, so you cannot really say “these sites suck” because you haven’t even been able to use them. If you had said “I try not to use JavaScript dependent sites” that makes sense. But the way you’re presenting it, you don’t have any trouble and just use most sites. Which I happen to know is not possible.
You put the “either” part, but I think you forgot to put the “or” part, which in my case here is that I used to allow javascripts for all sites and access all of the worst most popular ones but have come to realize over years of experience that the javascript-dependent ones are extremely likely to be god-awful experiences (to me). So I don’t tend to bother with them anymore. That doesn’t mean I don’t occasionally get curious and investigate. It’s just that my investigations do not deviate from my expectations. So I continue to conclude the same: that things have not improved (and in fact, they have gotten worse over time).
Based on my past experiences and random experiments, yes, I continue to conclude that those types of sites suck. The commonality is the requirement of the user to allow javascripts, which I see as forced self-harm at this point.
Idk how it seems that I actively use most sites. I would think that’s impossible of any human. I recognize patterns, and the one that’s relevant here is the quality/value (to me) of javascript-dependent sites.
Without javascripts, I get neat and tidy static pages that load super fast. I can have dozens of them loaded in separate tabs on my Librem 5 or Pinephone, which only have 3GB of RAM. It’s nice and comfy.
With javascripts, I get a bad experience involving
There are so many things I hate about these types of sites, and the ones which require javascript tend to have at least a few of these awful “features”. And another major bad experience is the first one: being given a demand in order to access the page, being required to allow javascript, especially the condescending messages that are like “sorry this is required” or “you must allow javascript”. The demands are toxic/hostile and then the javascript elements themselves are an affront. The whole experience is always terrible (to me). I just want to get what I was seeking and leave in a rush to gtfo of there. It’s never pleasant for me.
Hopefully this was more clear and to the point, but if there’s anything else, please let me know and I’ll address it. I am probably the most talkative person on this platform when I actually have people and a topic.
Though, sorry again for another wall of text. It is really easy for me to just keep going and is kinda difficult to hold myself back. And again, I don’t intend for any of this to come across in a negative light. It can be difficult to create a text-based vibe that matches what I’m trying to convey sometimes. Probably doesn’t help that I’m almost always sleep-deprived.
And now I’m struggling to finish this comment, so how about an emoji 🩷