The title says it all. Part of what i do now is to convince people to care about their privacy. I know I cannot force people to do anything. And I have a charisma level of -1, if this was an rpg. Like its nonnexistent.

I feel lonely in general because it feels like people make me feel like I’m delusional for caring about protecting my privacy. Maybe there is a support group for that🤣🤣🤣

But anything I can specifically say that works best in planting a seed in people’s mind?

  • unicornBro@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    5 days ago

    I have friends who care about privacy but they need phones that can do Uber and washing machine apps. So I’m the only one i know with a private FOSS phone.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      5 days ago

      Washing machine apps? Thats wild.😭😭

      Oh all they need to do is shelter the app and download from aurora🙌 hopefully. Thats too wishful thinking because sometimes the micro g doesnt work and app from aurora looks like trash.🤣🤣🤣

      • unicornBro@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        Yeah the washing machine app is for the public laundromat. I tried it on GrapheneOS with everything enabled but it was lacking something that is only on stock Google Android. I haven’t tried it on a MicroG phone yet.

  • rando895@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    7 days ago

    You could start invading their privacy if convincing them with words doesn’t work.

    Why bother shutting the bathroom door? You’re not doing anything wrong.

    Post family drama on Facebook, whats the problem with that? Everyone has drama?

    Really there is a deeper conversation about power and manipulation through marketing/propaganda. But thats an ever harder topic.

  • banazir@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    60
    ·
    edit-2
    9 days ago

    The thing is, people by and large don’t want to be convinced. They want their convenience and ease of use, they don’t want to learn a whole new paradigm, least of all one that requires constant vigilance and understanding of the risks. I can’t blame them, they have a lot on their mind, and their existing skill set might not be relevant to privacy issues. People in general resist change and effort. I do. You do too.

    It’s less about you, and more about them. People will only start taking steps when it all clicks for them. What the catalyst will be is impossible to tell, since people are wired differently. All we can do is talk about privacy and advocate for it with people who are willing to have the discussions. Don’t expect to go in and change people’s minds. It’s horribly difficult and you will be disappointed. Instead, think of it as giving people perspectives and starting points for their own journeys. If something happens and they are finally willing to start doing the work, they will at least have some context and words, labels to use. They may even come to you for more. They may not.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      9 days ago

      Important point to think about. People want comvience and comfort. I think we have gotten to the point where switching to privacy respecting options is easy and painless. Using signal is easy, using lemmy is easy, and even installing linux and other os is easy. Its just getting people to spend the time to do it. Even im moving slow as hell.

      Thats truu, its more about the other people. I think i get distressed because people dont care and I should stop it🤣🤣🤣

      Thank you so much

      • 211@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        9 days ago
        1. “Easy and painless” depends on your point of view, and we here tend to be biased. For example, just a couple of months ago I had to explain to “a normal person” how to make backup copies of a folder to a pen drive. She did not want additional backup software (and I still don’t know if W10 would have had the functionality out-of-the-box). Copypasting files was too difficult. In the end she decided to go with “save as”, which sounded like a horrible idea to me, since she’couldn’t remember how to open anything in Word that wasn’t in the recently used list when starting the software, and she is going to lose track of which file is which at some point. I doubt it would be “easy and painless” for people like her, who are very common outside our little bubble.

        2. Making someone change their opinion is not a sprint, but a marathon. State your opinion openly when relevant, don’t get into an argument, let it brew, mention it again when it comes up, live as you “preach”. That person I mentioned? Happily using Signal with me. Eager(!) to try Linux once W10 support runs out. I’ve told her I’ll install Mint DE on my laptop and loan it to her for unhurried testing and learning this summer while having her familiar backup to lean on if it gets difficult, and to install the same on her own computer when the support runs out, if she still wants me to.

        • JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          8 days ago

          AKA, people have little to no cognitive flexibility. Edit: And we, autistics are convinced we’re incompetent, because we dare to think differently.

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          7 days ago

          Its definitely a marathon😭😭 i still have more privacy stuff left to do. Including getting a new email account, switching my main laptop to linux, deleting accounts.

          Truu, maybe i have more tech knowledge than i think, so its easy and painless for me🤣 youre right, maybe not for others

          • 211@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            6 days ago

            It’s a neverending process. 😄 I’ve been at this for some 3-4 years now, and was ready to delete WhatsApp only about 6 months ago, and it’s already left me out of some local groups. Worth it though, and one group moved with me. And just now in the process of hopefully moving from Graphene to PostmarketOS (functional on an OP6) or Ubuntu Touch (to be installed on a FP4), just a matter of deciding which one. In retrospect, I could have skipped this Graphene phase and just gone from Divest to Linux, but I wasn’t ready then.

            IMHO if you try to do things before it feels like “okay this works, next I want to try…”, you’re likely to just get overwhelmed and take a step back.

            • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              6 days ago

              Truu it definitely is😭😭 im trying put linux on my surface tablet, its gonna be a hot mess.

              Wait your moving from graphene? Yeah if you dont own a pixel, i guess you have to🙄🙄

              Truu linux is a big step but it will work out! Good luck❤️❤️

              • 211@sopuli.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                6 days ago

                Don’t get me wrong, Graphene would still be my choice for privacy & security. But what started out as a quest for privacy has somehow morphed to include FLOSS idealism, even AOSP derivatives feel “too google” now and I feel bad carrying a Pixel.

                • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  5 days ago

                  I feel the same. Like why do we have carry a google device to ungoogle ourselves. Its a confusing topic🤣🤣

                  Personally in my head( just in my head, not facts), i do not believe that pixels have any better hardware than my one plus. I think its suscipious. Graphene is only one not offering to other phones, so hmmm.

      • voracitude@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        9 days ago

        The autistic trait that comes back to bite me most often is the unshakeable confidence that if I just show someone the truth, they’ll believe me.

        This has bounced around in my skull since I read it in a meme here. I hate how true it is.

      • Kbobabob@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        9 days ago

        Using signal is easy,

        Only works if everyone else uses it too which won’t happen.

        using lemmy is easy,

        Figuring out which server to join and app to use may not be so easy. I see confused people on Lemmy asking what instance is best.

        installing linux and other os is easy.

        Installing wasn’t really ever the issue. It’s using them that’s the issue.

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 days ago

          Truuu, i have so many friends on signal now, but i guess my circles run different.

          Oh truu, i just looked it up. Im in world and ml🤣🤣 didnt join the sus instances. Im basic🤣

          Is using linux hard in this day and age? I installed mint yesterday and had no problems. Im terrible with technology. I promise ill learn python and kotlin this year. But yeah, it was painless and easy. And i didnt brick my computer🤣

  • Libb@jlai.lu
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    27
    ·
    9 days ago

    “You don’t care about privacy? Why not give me your bank login, then”

    More seriously, You don’t have to convince people of anything. Sooner than later some huge leak will happen or anythign more intimate that will still impact them, say, like the story of this dad sending a pic of some intimate part of their sick kid’s to their doctor and being flagged by Google AI and being arrested for sharing child porn. And then they will realize why it mattered to protect our privacy.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      9 days ago

      That truu, I’ve recently started my privacy journey, so im slowly switching to alternative to trying to show them to people. Its like a new found interest.

      That article crazyy thoooo😭😭😭 thats wilddd.

      • Libb@jlai.lu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        9 days ago

        That truu, I’ve recently started my privacy journey,

        That’s a great decision, imho.

        I made the same choice a few years ago. Every little step counts. I will never be an expert or feel that safe using digital tech but I quit using many tools and services I realized I can’t trust at all, which is already something. And it all started by one small first step.

        so im slowly switching to alternative to trying to show them to people.

        Showing them is a good idea, preaching them to do what you’re doing is probably not that great an idea. Think about it, when was the last time you sincerely changed your mind because someone was forcing you to listen to them or was harassing you. What most probably happened is that you told more or less politely to funk themselves ;)

        That article

        … is terrifying, imho and it is certainly not the kind of society I want to live in.

        There is also a much older story about Amazon deleting the novel 1984 from the kindle of customers having legally purchased it (they were refunded but still that doesn’t change what happened). This kind of events is what started my journey toward a more privacy and ownership-respecting usage of digital tools. That’s also what helped me switch back to analog wherever it was doable (Amazon can’t delete a printed book from my bookshelves).

        • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 days ago

          Truuu, it feels good to make your data is safe🙌

          I do come off as preachy🤣 its the thing i do when i learn too much information. I also have no charisma🤣 It depemds how much i want to change. I have substance use issues and it took me 4 months to take that one seriously. But yeah, it takes a while to realize people were right 🤣🤣🤣

          Thats wild they can just delete a book. Thats scary😭😭😭 thats why subscrption services are scary for things that should just be broight like books and software😭

  • Tenkard@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    9 days ago

    I just compare it to having a stalker. Imagine being in your bedroom and having someone looking at you from outside the window. Now, would you be ok with it if the person was invisible?

  • piyuv@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    9 days ago

    One thing I love about Germany is that people have this understanding where privacy is fundamental and not something to argue about. Because they know being able to easily identify people leads to disaster. It’s just about a political swing away.

  • doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    9 days ago

    If you’re in the US, you could point to the news. Even garden variety libs should be a little nervous about the increasing police state

  • qyron@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    edit-2
    9 days ago

    Start by your own privacy.

    I boarded that train about twenty years ago. I tried the evangelizing route. I failed miserably. Which led me to care for myself first and foremost.

    I started by abandoning Windows. Not of my own volition; I bought a computer that had no OS. Enter Linux. None of my family, friends or acquaintances understood. It was all about the convinience. When my machines started outperforming while outliving theirs, it caused a ripple.

    Then came the usual slew of questions: where can I get a free anti-virus, office, media reader, whatever? That was when I introduced FOSS. After the initial resistance, things just settled into place. LibreOffice works. VLC works. PeaZip works. Thunderbird works. Etc.

    When smartphones became a thing, I started moving as fast as I could towards FOSS. This made things a bit more laughable as “free” android applications are ubiquous. But they fill your phone with junk and ads. While my apps provided me ease of use, safety, security and privacy.

    But when push came to shove, I just refused to join. First I left FBMessenger. I never boarded Whatsapp. I never entered Instagram or any major social networks. I discovered Signal and remained there.

    It’s my way or no way.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      7 days ago

      Makes sense! I did linux mint this weekend on an old laptop. So i feel more confident in switching over on my real laptop.

      I think we are at the point where we can use foss options and linux for all our needs and they arent hard to use. 🙌🙌 i agree

      Yeppp one day im just gonna drop everyone my signal and move completly over there.🤣

      Thanks so much❤️

  • guest@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    9 days ago

    I typically point to the real world and that seems to work:

    • Your garden has a fence
    • Your windows have curtains so that you close when you switch on the lights inside
    • Your bathroom window uses frosted glass so that you cannot be seen showering from outside
    • You sometimes whisper so that not everyone can hear what you say

    None of them are super safe, but you still follow these precautions. All we ask is to be as careful on the internet.

    • TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      9 days ago

      Those things are really intuitive, and anyone should be able to understand them. The digital world is completely different and alien, which makes it difficult to think about. People don’t understand it, so they can’t be expected to have a rational opinion about it.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      7 days ago

      I wish my bathroom had frosted glass🤣🤣🤣🤣

      But yes, we do have to protect ourselves on the internet. Thsnks so much❤️❤️

  • DominusOfMegadeus@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    9 days ago

    People never want to be convinced of anything that says they should do something differently than how they currently do it. Best you can do is lead by example. Talk about benefits of your way of doing things if they ask, or if it is very relevant to the conversation. Otherwise, don’t broach those topics. To take it a step further, if people start complaining to you about problems, before you offer solutions, ask them if they are just venting, or if they are looking for advice or suggestions. Now that you have your instructions on how to change what you are doing, please follow them to the letter, without deviation ;P

    • James R Kirk@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      9 days ago

      Well said, I was thinking maybe the entire reason OPs charisma is -1 is because they’re out there trying to convince people to do something instead of just doing their own thing.

      • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        7 days ago

        Oh its always been bad. I work in healthcare amd i cant convince patients to do things but if someone else says it they will do it. Its a skill and charmisa issue. I know its bad🤣🤣🤣 i dont think i can improve my stats, its a locked stat🤣

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      7 days ago

      Truuu, i got gotta focus on my journey.🤣

      Gotta check if they are ready, makes sense.

      Thanks for the advice❤️

  • Scott_of_the_Arctic@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    8 days ago

    Most people are all like: “derp derp! Nothing to hide nothing to fear duuuuur 🤤”. There’s no reasoning with them. Don’t beat yourself up over it.

  • WQMan@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    9 days ago

    Honestly, there are a lot of people whom I met believe that google can track/store all their information since they believe that they are too insignificant for that data to matter. Hard to change that mindset in the first place.

    What i tend to do is just complain about how much resources trackers/spyware take up on my Phone/Computers, which tends to convience people better than just doing a “but mah privacy”. More people are united about a less laggier computer/phone after all lol.

    • pandorabox@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      8 days ago

      Yepp its hard to change that one. I used to think like that. Then i became older and i was like hmmm maybe people shouldnt have that much information. People dont know they could make a difference by not giving these companies anymore info.

      Thanks so much❤️