Can you explain how going vegan (I assume what you’re referencing when you say “eat different”) would stop, slow, or in any appreciable way alter the rise of fascism? Or genocides? Or police brutality?
The two seem, while granted one is exponentially better for the planet as a whole, completely disconnected from one another?
Or are you merely saying that the act of switching eating habits is good practice for the hardship and sacrifice required to change the other, aforementioned issues?
The wholesale imprisonment, torture, rape and murder of living beings IS fascism, on the scale of trillions of exploited animals per year. How we treat non-human creatures reflects how we treat each other. We’re committing genocide towards all living beings.
The entire moral foundation of leftism is is that we ought to arrange the world such that suffering is not inflicted on others for the gain of the few.
If you are unconcerned with the horror of carnism you are only concerned with the rights of those you deem sufficiently similar to you based on arbitrarily selected metrics, the reciting of which has a curious tendency to make someone sound like a Nazi: intelligence (as defined by an ability to peform certain specific tasks rather arbitrarily selected), or appearance, or genetics.
Either we are concerned with suffering or we are not. The practice of continually and regularly brutalising other creatures we know feel and suffer as much as we can know any other human does harms us, slaughterhouse workers suffer PTSD and display rates of violence above the normal. There are reasons that Nazis copied factory farming. It trains us in the process of dehumanisation (even that term is loaded), it harms the people involved, it harms the animals, and it gets you practicing that it is simply ok not to care or change anything if the treats you get by doing so are sufficiently enjoyable.
Thank you for your response, if it’s okay with you and you have time, I would love to ask a few more questions. Again, I promise I’m not trying to pick a fight or poke holes, I’m genuinely trying to reconcile things inside my head:
Has all of human history been fascist since humans have always consumed other beings?
The horrors of factory farming are indefensible, no argument. What about the farm who only raises enough for his family? Take that one far as you want, a single cow…flock of chickens, you get the idea. I’m more interested in the spirit than the semantics.
This one kind of spins off of question one, but I’d like to delve into this one…what about the Native Americans, who harvested, utilized the entire animal, had reverence for its spirit, its sacrifice?
Thank you for your response, it has been enlightening thus far.
literally all arguments for veganism have already been hashed out. Go look them up, it’s a waste of my time to present worse versions off the top of my head.
The question becomes which source? Considering the fact I know nothing about the political ramifications of a system I don’t take part in, I’m essentially starting from scratch. I can go toss is a search engine “political ramifications of veganism” and wade through a million million lines of AI slop and opinion pieces and still be no closer to an answer than when I started.
So yes, I am going to look “them” up… just as soon as I figure out which “them” I’m looking for.
You’re framing your expectations of veganism in a way where you will always fail to see its significance. The answer to your question is trivial.
“Veganism as a movement detracts from the rise of fascism, the normalisation of genocides and the prevalence of police brutality by challenging people to be more empathetic, live more sustainably and make individual choices towards a larger goal.”
You will never consider this an acceptable answer however and regardless of how you frame your reason for it being unacceptable, the truth is, for you it has to be unacceptable because you have a cultural connection to eating meat and an emotional reaction to the idea of changing that behavior. And in that sense your thinking is parallel to that of the fascist, the genocider and of the exploitative police officer.
And if none of that makes it to you; vegans as are group are overwhelmingly left wing people. Why would that be the case if the movement itself wasn’t inherently a left wing movement?
“we need to radically transform society”
“I agree, tried eating different?”
“omg too hard”
Not trying to pick a fight, trying to understand…
Can you explain how going vegan (I assume what you’re referencing when you say “eat different”) would stop, slow, or in any appreciable way alter the rise of fascism? Or genocides? Or police brutality?
The two seem, while granted one is exponentially better for the planet as a whole, completely disconnected from one another?
Or are you merely saying that the act of switching eating habits is good practice for the hardship and sacrifice required to change the other, aforementioned issues?
The wholesale imprisonment, torture, rape and murder of living beings IS fascism, on the scale of trillions of exploited animals per year. How we treat non-human creatures reflects how we treat each other. We’re committing genocide towards all living beings.
The entire moral foundation of leftism is is that we ought to arrange the world such that suffering is not inflicted on others for the gain of the few.
If you are unconcerned with the horror of carnism you are only concerned with the rights of those you deem sufficiently similar to you based on arbitrarily selected metrics, the reciting of which has a curious tendency to make someone sound like a Nazi: intelligence (as defined by an ability to peform certain specific tasks rather arbitrarily selected), or appearance, or genetics.
Either we are concerned with suffering or we are not. The practice of continually and regularly brutalising other creatures we know feel and suffer as much as we can know any other human does harms us, slaughterhouse workers suffer PTSD and display rates of violence above the normal. There are reasons that Nazis copied factory farming. It trains us in the process of dehumanisation (even that term is loaded), it harms the people involved, it harms the animals, and it gets you practicing that it is simply ok not to care or change anything if the treats you get by doing so are sufficiently enjoyable.
Thank you for your response, if it’s okay with you and you have time, I would love to ask a few more questions. Again, I promise I’m not trying to pick a fight or poke holes, I’m genuinely trying to reconcile things inside my head:
Has all of human history been fascist since humans have always consumed other beings?
The horrors of factory farming are indefensible, no argument. What about the farm who only raises enough for his family? Take that one far as you want, a single cow…flock of chickens, you get the idea. I’m more interested in the spirit than the semantics.
This one kind of spins off of question one, but I’d like to delve into this one…what about the Native Americans, who harvested, utilized the entire animal, had reverence for its spirit, its sacrifice?
Thank you for your response, it has been enlightening thus far.
literally all arguments for veganism have already been hashed out. Go look them up, it’s a waste of my time to present worse versions off the top of my head.
Understood, have a nice day.
You’re not gonna look them up lmao
You know what they say when you assume.
The question becomes which source? Considering the fact I know nothing about the political ramifications of a system I don’t take part in, I’m essentially starting from scratch. I can go toss is a search engine “political ramifications of veganism” and wade through a million million lines of AI slop and opinion pieces and still be no closer to an answer than when I started.
So yes, I am going to look “them” up… just as soon as I figure out which “them” I’m looking for.
why don’t you try comlib or anarchistslib if you want to find writings by leftists for leftists?
You’re framing your expectations of veganism in a way where you will always fail to see its significance. The answer to your question is trivial.
“Veganism as a movement detracts from the rise of fascism, the normalisation of genocides and the prevalence of police brutality by challenging people to be more empathetic, live more sustainably and make individual choices towards a larger goal.”
You will never consider this an acceptable answer however and regardless of how you frame your reason for it being unacceptable, the truth is, for you it has to be unacceptable because you have a cultural connection to eating meat and an emotional reaction to the idea of changing that behavior. And in that sense your thinking is parallel to that of the fascist, the genocider and of the exploitative police officer.
And if none of that makes it to you; vegans as are group are overwhelmingly left wing people. Why would that be the case if the movement itself wasn’t inherently a left wing movement?
Is the “you” in this a general you, or are you speaking directly to me? The answer this question will change how I interpret and respond.
Why would it change how you respond. The core of my reply is devoid of the word.