There are a few reports coming in from this thread. I’m open to changing my mind on any of the following, but the reason why I haven’t taken action on a few of the reports is as follows:
I think that it is both valid to question why these people are covering their faces, while also noting that covering your face isn’t “bad” in all cases. The same comment (“if they think they’re right, why hide their faces”) is also used against protestors when they push against the government. Based on the context, I think that’s the point that the other users in this thread wanted to make, but did so poorly. I don’t think those other users are in support of the white nationalists in the post, but rather they picked a bad example.
The difference between the two situations comes down to why the face is covered and what power that serves. Generally:
In rallies such as this, the face covering is for intimidation and group identity, and using anonymity to threaten the targeted minority group. It is also intended to hide the person from their community members, because of shame and embarrassment.
In protests, the face covering is to avoid retaliation from the authority figures that the person is protesting against. They rarely hide their thoughts and feelings about the matter from their community members.
Again, there is some overlap, but that it is why it’s usually more valid to criticize the former and not the latter.
As for the second argument, I think there is a misunderstanding between ‘human trafficking’ and ‘human smuggling’. Human trafficking is almost always defined as the exploitative practice, where the person being moved is being harmed. Human smuggling can take different forms, but it is not necessarily harming the person being moved. The example of the Underground Railroad and the networks that help refugees and victims escape harm, those would fall under the label of “Human Smuggling”, but the terms are often confused.
So overall I think the issues in this thread come from users making errors, rather than malice, and so I haven’t taken specific moderation actions. But again, open to changing my mind and taking action if more info is brought to light.
I don’t really care if the people that think the problem with fascist movements is anonymity don’t know what politics are.
Trafficking people was the only political tool they had to fight against oppression at the time, they weren’t able to lead to a larger change in society so they were reserved to impacting change on an individual level.
You’re mixing up human trafficking (which is always exploitative) with human smuggling (which may or may not be exploitative). Longer comment here: https://lemmy.ca/post/71542429/25593898
You’re mixing up human trafficking (which is always exploitative) with human smuggling (which may or may not be exploitative). Longer comment here: https://lemmy.ca/post/71542429/25593898
Just about the falsest of equivalences that ever false-equivalenced. The Underground Railroad was humans trying to survive unspeakable conditions, it formed spontaneously, out of necessity. Nazism is humans trying to bring back those unspeakable conditions, it forms by choice, out of hatred and fear. The consequence of UR members losing their anonymity was torturous death for themselves and their loved ones, the consequences of these shitstains losing their anonymity is, at most, justified social ostracization. If the world knowing what you really believe means good, reasonable people think you’re a piece of shit, maybe it’s time to reflect on those beliefs, eh?
If their cause is so noble, why hide their faces?
There are a few reports coming in from this thread. I’m open to changing my mind on any of the following, but the reason why I haven’t taken action on a few of the reports is as follows:
I think that it is both valid to question why these people are covering their faces, while also noting that covering your face isn’t “bad” in all cases. The same comment (“if they think they’re right, why hide their faces”) is also used against protestors when they push against the government. Based on the context, I think that’s the point that the other users in this thread wanted to make, but did so poorly. I don’t think those other users are in support of the white nationalists in the post, but rather they picked a bad example.
The difference between the two situations comes down to why the face is covered and what power that serves. Generally:
Again, there is some overlap, but that it is why it’s usually more valid to criticize the former and not the latter.
As for the second argument, I think there is a misunderstanding between ‘human trafficking’ and ‘human smuggling’. Human trafficking is almost always defined as the exploitative practice, where the person being moved is being harmed. Human smuggling can take different forms, but it is not necessarily harming the person being moved. The example of the Underground Railroad and the networks that help refugees and victims escape harm, those would fall under the label of “Human Smuggling”, but the terms are often confused.
So overall I think the issues in this thread come from users making errors, rather than malice, and so I haven’t taken specific moderation actions. But again, open to changing my mind and taking action if more info is brought to light.
The underground railroad needed anonymity.
I don’t agree with your argument.
Two entirely different functions, one of which requires anonymity by default. What a silly comparison.
This is a demonstration not an underground resistance movement. They’re supposed to be proudly demonstrating what they believe.
The point is that the nobility of the event isn’t what defines being hidden or not.
You can find other demonstrations against oppressors that require hiding identity from those oppressors.
Just because you lack the ability to disagree with Nazis on a moral or political basis doesn’t mean empty platitudes should be celebrated.
The Underground Railroad wasn’t in the business of swaying politics
It absolutely was about fighting a political fight.
This is the hill you die on? Really?
I don’t really care if the people that think the problem with fascist movements is anonymity don’t know what politics are.
Trafficking people was the only political tool they had to fight against oppression at the time, they weren’t able to lead to a larger change in society so they were reserved to impacting change on an individual level.
Are you still talking about the underground railroad?
Given that’s what you were replying to, what else do you think I would be talking about?
Ok yeah unhinged take, thanks for confirming
You’re mixing up human trafficking (which is always exploitative) with human smuggling (which may or may not be exploitative). Longer comment here: https://lemmy.ca/post/71542429/25593898
the underground railroad was moving people illegally, sure the people consented but so do quite a few human trafficking victims (intially).
You’re mixing up human trafficking (which is always exploitative) with human smuggling (which may or may not be exploitative). Longer comment here: https://lemmy.ca/post/71542429/25593898
By any definition of human trafficking, keeping slaves would qualify as that, freeing slaves would not.
Lol
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Just about the falsest of equivalences that ever false-equivalenced. The Underground Railroad was humans trying to survive unspeakable conditions, it formed spontaneously, out of necessity. Nazism is humans trying to bring back those unspeakable conditions, it forms by choice, out of hatred and fear. The consequence of UR members losing their anonymity was torturous death for themselves and their loved ones, the consequences of these shitstains losing their anonymity is, at most, justified social ostracization. If the world knowing what you really believe means good, reasonable people think you’re a piece of shit, maybe it’s time to reflect on those beliefs, eh?
So you see how face covering isn’t the problem right?