The simple argument is that electoralism cannot work. Therefore, workers should front and vote for our own parties, to measure strength and prove the inability to gain change via electoralism.
I don’t know if I understand what you are suggesting. Are you saying the working class should vote third party, or each person should vote for themself? Or when you say vote for our own parties do you mean not vote at all?
The working class should vote for socialist parties like PSL, participate in them, and organize with them. That’s about the best we can do within the bounds of electoralism, but we should use that to organize for dual power and revolution.
I agree with both of you that we need to vote for socialist parties and organize with them. But that doesnt mean to support the lesser evil argument. Lesser evil argument will be that we need to vote for Hillary in order to avoid Trump for example, that is absurd and is the reason we cannot support this lesser evil stupidity. I hope Carrot is not defending this lesser evil position.
You make it seem so black and white. I don’t think it’s as simple as the lesser evil choice is 100% wrong full stop. For instance, I support the lesser evil mindset over the not voting mindset. However, if one exists, I support voting for a politician that genuinely supports your views over the lesser evil mindset.
Not voting makes no sense to me, because a null vote has the same effect as a vote for whichever candidate you like the least.
If you abstain from voting then you’re basically lumping yourself in with people who don’t care or actually are fine with the status quo. If you cast a blank vote then you’re expressing your disapproval of all the candidates. Essentially saying “I’m willing to vote, but it won’t be for any of you guys”. This would make sense if the system worked but it doesn’t.
I partially agree. I think not voting is a vote for whichever candidate you like the least, since if you had voted somewhere else, the candidate you like the least would have gotten a smaller percentage of the votes. If you want to cast a blank vote, vote for whichever party would do the least damage., since that will actually have a measurable outcome. If you think all candidates are equally bad, including 3rd party, I think voting for someone who has some level of cultural relevance and holds the same views you do makes the most sense, since that makes the statement that you would vote for candidates like that person.
The simple argument is that electoralism cannot work. Therefore, workers should front and vote for our own parties, to measure strength and prove the inability to gain change via electoralism.
I don’t know if I understand what you are suggesting. Are you saying the working class should vote third party, or each person should vote for themself? Or when you say vote for our own parties do you mean not vote at all?
The working class should vote for socialist parties like PSL, participate in them, and organize with them. That’s about the best we can do within the bounds of electoralism, but we should use that to organize for dual power and revolution.
Oh, then I think we agree with each other. I’m specifically wondering why someone would abstain from voting
I agree with both of you that we need to vote for socialist parties and organize with them. But that doesnt mean to support the lesser evil argument. Lesser evil argument will be that we need to vote for Hillary in order to avoid Trump for example, that is absurd and is the reason we cannot support this lesser evil stupidity. I hope Carrot is not defending this lesser evil position.
You make it seem so black and white. I don’t think it’s as simple as the lesser evil choice is 100% wrong full stop. For instance, I support the lesser evil mindset over the not voting mindset. However, if one exists, I support voting for a politician that genuinely supports your views over the lesser evil mindset.
Not voting makes no sense to me, because a null vote has the same effect as a vote for whichever candidate you like the least.
If you abstain from voting then you’re basically lumping yourself in with people who don’t care or actually are fine with the status quo. If you cast a blank vote then you’re expressing your disapproval of all the candidates. Essentially saying “I’m willing to vote, but it won’t be for any of you guys”. This would make sense if the system worked but it doesn’t.
I partially agree. I think not voting is a vote for whichever candidate you like the least, since if you had voted somewhere else, the candidate you like the least would have gotten a smaller percentage of the votes. If you want to cast a blank vote, vote for whichever party would do the least damage., since that will actually have a measurable outcome. If you think all candidates are equally bad, including 3rd party, I think voting for someone who has some level of cultural relevance and holds the same views you do makes the most sense, since that makes the statement that you would vote for candidates like that person.