• kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Genuinely speaking, low level lead poisoning is linked to increased aggression, criminal behavior and lack of empathy. It may be directly tied to the reason we so rarely see serial killers now, but they were relatively prevalent in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. This is at the height of pollution related to leaded gasoline. It might explain Boomer and Xer MAGA conservatives too.

    • IronBird@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      serial killers just don’t make the news…for fucks make mass school shootings don’t even make the news anymore

    • Vincent@feddit.nl
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      1 day ago

      Ah, is this that claim from Freakomics that they made right after explaining that correlation doesn’t imply causation?

      • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
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        Correlation not implying causation is not the same as correlation not implying relation. When data correlates, that means that there is a liklihood that there is some connection. For any two correlating datasets, there are 3 explanations, 1) coincidence 2) causation 3) relation to a shared casual link. Figuring out which it is just requires more data, experimentation, and/or an understanding of the mechanisms of their relation. We use correlation of datasets as a guide, and even as a proof of theory given enough experimentation and correlating data to show a casual link all the time in science.

        I think that the liklihood that leaded gasoline is connected to the rates of serial killers and other forms of violent crime is high not just because of the correlation, but because of that and the fact that we have studies showing how lead poisoning can effect people’s behavior. We know it can effect behavior, and we know that lead levels in the air peaked in the mid 70s before leaded gasoline was banned. It is not a leap to jump to the hypothesis that leaded gasoline causing high lead levels in the air from pollution may have effected human behavior. And then the data of serial killings and violent crime actually showing a correlation with those lead levels strengthens that hypothesis. I wouldn’t say that it’s proof, far from it. But I do think it’s likely the truth.

        • foodandart@lemmy.zip
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          1 day ago

          When data correlates, that means that there is a liklihood that there is some connection.

          Yup. There’s a reason it’s called co-relation.

          • Vincent@feddit.nl
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            8 hours ago

            Things can very much be co-related without one causing the other (e.g. when both are consequences of a third cause). And of course, correlated things can be completely unrelated still.

            (And to emphasise: yes, it is also possible that there is a causal relation between correlated things.)

            • foodandart@lemmy.zip
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              2 hours ago

              Oh absolutely. My favorite example of it is there’s a co-relation between domestic abuse and alcoholism, but the alcohol may not be causing the abuse so much as exacerbating an already violent mindset of the abuser. The actual problem of the abuse isn’t the alcohol… but it doesn’t help.

              Thanks for the spurious correlations! Those are delightful. The “slaps roof of the car” meme and divorce rates… Who knew! LOL!

        • Vincent@feddit.nl
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          Right, I’m just venting my old frustration with that specific book because they only used the correlation as “proof”, rather than indeed looking at more causal signals like studies on lead poisoning.

          It is certainly also true that correlation doesn’t mean that there’s no causation, even in cases were there are no other experiments yet to support a causal relationship.

      • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        They found enough causation to ban lead in gasoline despite lobbying against the ban from both lead and oil companies.

        • Vincent@feddit.nl
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          8 hours ago

          Yeah, as I mentioned in the other reply, I’m not saying there’s no causation. I was just annoyed by the Freakonomics book that didn’t give any reason to believe there was, other than the correlation.

    • krashmo@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      While it can be comforting to find something external to blame, assholes have always existed. You don’t have to look farther than human nature to explain their behavior. In fact, doing so can in some ways prevent us from fully understanding the problem. We can’t combat it effectively if we don’t understand it.

      • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        Reducing it down to a vague concept of “human nature” is shortsighted and ignores the science into environmental factors that affect human behavior on a societal level. There is no one, singular “human nature”. We are products of our environment and our upbringing.

        They never said assholes don’t exist. They said there were more cases of violence and serial murder due to the increased level of lead exposure.

        You don’t have to look further than the surface, no, but neglecting to do so is just myopic and willfully ignorant behavior. It’s hilarious that you then end it by saying we can’t fight it if we don’t understand it. We can’t understand it if we don’t study it and the factors that influence it.

        • krashmo@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Cool, so all we need to do is keep lead exposure to a minimum and in a generation fascism won’t exist, right? If you’re agreeing with the statement “lead exposure explains Boomer and Gen X MAGA conservatives” then something along those lines must be what you’re trying to say.

          And you said I’m oversimplifying things, sheesh.