“Tankie” was never about “using force to keep the people controlled,” it originated from a split in whether to support the Red Army putting down a fascist uprising in Hungary or not. You’re correct about the origin timeline, but are defending Nazis freed from prison after being jailed during World War II that went on to lynch communists and Jews, just because they were anti-communist.
“Tankie” was a pejorative for Marxists that support socialism in real life then as well as now. It originated in the Communist Party of Great Britain. The term was coined because of the British tendency towards silly-sounding insults, and because the Soviet Union sent in the Red Army to stop the western-backed fascist insurrection. This caused a split in the party (as it always does in western orgs).
"The special correspondent of the Yugoslav paper, Politika, (Nov. 13, 1956) describing the events of those days, said that the homes of Communists were marked with a white cross and those of Jews with a black cross, to serve as signs for the extermination squads. “There is no longer any room for doubt,” said the Yugoslav reporter, “it is an example of classic Hungarian fascism and of White Terror. The information,” continued this writer, “coming from the provinces tells how in certain places Communists were having their eyes put out, their ears cut off, and that they were being killed in the most terrible ways.”
“But the forces of reaction were rapidly consolidating their power and pushing forward on the top levels, while in the streets the blood of scores of massacred Communists, Jews, and progressives was flowing.”
“Some of the reports reaching Warsaw from Budapest today caused considerable concern. These reports told of massacres of Communists and Jews by what were described as 'Fascist elements’ …” (N.Y. Times, Nov. 1. 1956)
“The evidence is conclusive that the entry of Soviet troops into Budapest stopped the execution of scores, perhaps thousands of Jews, for by the end of October and early November, anti-Semtic pogroms - hallmark of unbridled fascistic terror - were making their appearance, after an absence of some ten years, within Hungary.”
"A correspondent of the Israeli newspaper Maariv (Tel Aviv) reported:
During the uprising a number of former Nazis were released from prison and other former Nazis came to Hungary from Salzburg . . . I met them at the border . . . I saw anti-Semitic posters in Budapest . . . On the walls, street lights, streetcars, you saw inscriptions reading: “Down with Jew Gero!” “Down with Jew Rakosi!” or just simply “down with the Jews!”
Leading rabbinical circles in New York received a cable early in November from corresponding circles in Vienna that “Jewish blood is being shed by the rebels in Hungary.” Very much later-in February, 1957-the World Jewish Congress reported that “anti-Semitic excesses occurred in more than twenty villages and smaller provincial towns during the October-November revolt.” This occurred, according to this very conservative body, because “fascist and anti-Semitic groups had apparently seized the opportunity, presented by the absence of a central authority, to come to the surface.” Many among the Jewish refugees from Hungary, the report continued, had fled from this anti-Semitic pogrom-like atmosphere (N.Y. Times, Feb. 15, 1957). This confirmed the earlier report made by the British Rabbi, R. Pozner, who, after touring refugee camps, declared that “the majority of Jews who left Hungary did so for fear of the Hungarians and not the Russians.” The Paris Jewish newspaper, Naye Presse, asserted that Jewish refugees in France claimed quite generally that Soviet soldiers had saved their lives."
Further, the CIA also backed Hungarian resistance forces:
Prague in 1968 was a similar fascist uprising in both cases there were some elements of progressive protest, but these were greatly overshadowed by the fascist movements. Dubcek wanted to sell out to the IMF, and restore capitalism. The idea that any of this was about “democracy” or “freedom” is silly, it was always about Cold War tactics to destabilize socialism.
TL;DR imagine if the January 6th rioters were armed and trained by foreign governments, started lynching officials and Jewish people, and the US sent in the army to put down the insurrection. The MAGA chuds would claim that it was about “freedom” and “democracy,” but we all know that they just wanted Trump in office.
Nowadays, it’s used by any random anti-communist to refer to anyone that supports socialist states or doesn’t buy into the imperialist narrative about global south countries. It was the ones you call “tankies” that knew the stories of WMD and Saddam’s forces leaving babies outside of incubators were both bullshit to manufacture consent for war, but now that its decades later the anti-communists all suddenly have collective amnesia about their willing participation in spreading the lies of empire to murder hundreds of thousands of people.
Anti-communists, I might add, that you are the modern version of, “left” anti-communists that service empire by attacking the Empire’s enemies for them while not meaningfully opposing the Empire itself. The Zizeks, the Chomskys, the Eric Blairs.
I know quite well what the pejorative you love to hurl means, and its origins. In addition to the liberal viewpoint from wikipedia, I recommend the Prolewiki article on “Tankies,” as well as Nia Frome’s essay “Tankies.” That should give you a more well-rounded view.
It’s a well known leftist term and is almost 100 years old now. I have a hard time believing you didn’t already know this.
There’s an ongoing campaign by the usual suspects to pretend the word doesn’t have a definition beyond “epithet for The Real Left used by ignorant libtards.” Usually followed by a wall of text containing circular references as citations.
Do you also have an evil gun word to refer to people defending socialdemocracy? Do you call them “bombies” for defending the socialdemocracy in EU states that helped bomb Libya and Yugoslavia and destroyed millions of lives in the process? Do you call them “dronies” for voting for the democrats that threw missiles with drones on brown children during the Obama administration?
Or is the usage of militaristic sounding bad words reserved for those who defend the revolution that saved Europe from Nazism, that industrialized Eastern Europe and saved it from extermination and colonization, saving a hundred million lives in the process from hunger, genocide, disease and exploitation?
Are your bad words reserved for those, and not for the leftists in Spain (my homeland) who refused to repress the fascists during the Spanish Second Republic and allowed a civil war that ended up millions of deaths and in 40 years of fascism? No evil military word for those?
There is actually technically no such thing as an authoritarian leftist. Leftism is defined as more egalitarian/less hierarchical. Tankies are right wingers that have been pushed into the same spaces as leftists because they are against Western nationalism.
Also, because setting up a “Left Wing” country or society doesn’t mean people with a Right Wing outlook on life cease to exist. They have to candy coat their beliefs in the language of Leftism but that doesn’t make it leftism.
You’ve fallen into the trap. Political stances aren’t on a spectrum, they’re multi dimensional
Some leftists believe in anarchy, in a lack of hard boundaries and a more organic cultural resistance to bad actors. Some believe in rigid structure, in the rules creating equity and equality.
Tankies believe in an authoritarian, top down force that will impress ideology onto the masses.
All lefties believe in equity and/or equality. That’s the common thread. Tankies are crazy high on the authoritarian vs anarchy spectrum, but they genuinely think that road will lead to an equitable society
Then what is it measuring? Right and left are directions, they’re labels that are extremely contextual
I genuinely don’t know which of many axis you might be referring to. I think you’re probably gesturing to something like equal/inequal distribution of power, but you could also mean progressive vs regressive, or even liberal vs fascist
The word Tankie originates from 1950s British Communist circles. Specifically, it was used by British Communists to derisively describe their comrades who supported the 1956 invasion of Hungary by the Soviet Union.
Images of the Soviet invasion featured a lot of tanks, hence, “Tankie”.
After that died down, the term didn’t come back into use really, until the 2010s, when leftists on the internet started using it in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. It was fun to bring back a stupid sounding, incredibly niche, British slang word.
At some point the word breached containment and started to be used by liberals, in a very cavilier sort of way. I’ve seen people use Tankie to describe anyone from Marxist-Leninists, to Marxists generally, to Leftists generally, weird right-wingers who converted to Russian Orthodoxy, pro-Palestine activists, mods of Lemmy instances someone doesn’t like.
Shit, I’ve seen literal Anarchist get called Tankies.
Basically, it’s a meaningless nothing word now, that’s a bit like your boomer grandpa who still thinks it’s the Red Scare, calling Joe Biden a Commie Pinko.
I really appreciate the summary you provided. I’m sure the user that asked got downvoted for a reason. I’ve never felt comfortable asking myself. I’ve googled it, read other explanations, and have always decided I just don’t get it. A big part of that is I read comments that are all over the spectrum and have a response from somebody saying they are a tankie. I never even heard of the term until I got on here like two years ago and it just feels like it’s a “I disagree with you so I’m going to call you a niche name that’s popular only on this particular platform” vernacular.
I wish it would die out because it’s been so diluted of meaning in this community.
Did I sign up for some kind of course you’re instructing or do you just generally feel entitled to try grading engagement in an open community discussion?
Define “tankie” please
I love how this has 80 downvotes.
I don’t see why.
It’s not exactly a controversial question. It’s possible they’ve never seen the term used before.
So yeah. Pile on with the downvotes because someone is new! Fuck 'em! /s
Those on the left who support the state using force to keep the people controlled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Y’know rolling tanks into Hungary in 1956 when leftists first started using the word.
It’s a well known leftist term and is almost 100 years old now. I have a hard time believing you didn’t already know this.
“Tankie” was never about “using force to keep the people controlled,” it originated from a split in whether to support the Red Army putting down a fascist uprising in Hungary or not. You’re correct about the origin timeline, but are defending Nazis freed from prison after being jailed during World War II that went on to lynch communists and Jews, just because they were anti-communist.
“Tankie” was a pejorative for Marxists that support socialism in real life then as well as now. It originated in the Communist Party of Great Britain. The term was coined because of the British tendency towards silly-sounding insults, and because the Soviet Union sent in the Red Army to stop the western-backed fascist insurrection. This caused a split in the party (as it always does in western orgs).
The Hungarian revolt in 1956 was infested with anti-semitic pograms. MI6 funded, supplied, and trained the Hungarian counter-revolutionaries. These counter-revolutionaries were allied with fascists who were lynching Jewish people and Communists.
Further, the CIA also backed Hungarian resistance forces:
Prague in 1968 was a similar fascist uprising in both cases there were some elements of progressive protest, but these were greatly overshadowed by the fascist movements. Dubcek wanted to sell out to the IMF, and restore capitalism. The idea that any of this was about “democracy” or “freedom” is silly, it was always about Cold War tactics to destabilize socialism.
TL;DR imagine if the January 6th rioters were armed and trained by foreign governments, started lynching officials and Jewish people, and the US sent in the army to put down the insurrection. The MAGA chuds would claim that it was about “freedom” and “democracy,” but we all know that they just wanted Trump in office.
Nowadays, it’s used by any random anti-communist to refer to anyone that supports socialist states or doesn’t buy into the imperialist narrative about global south countries. It was the ones you call “tankies” that knew the stories of WMD and Saddam’s forces leaving babies outside of incubators were both bullshit to manufacture consent for war, but now that its decades later the anti-communists all suddenly have collective amnesia about their willing participation in spreading the lies of empire to murder hundreds of thousands of people.
Anti-communists, I might add, that you are the modern version of, “left” anti-communists that service empire by attacking the Empire’s enemies for them while not meaningfully opposing the Empire itself. The Zizeks, the Chomskys, the Eric Blairs.
I know quite well what the pejorative you love to hurl means, and its origins. In addition to the liberal viewpoint from wikipedia, I recommend the Prolewiki article on “Tankies,” as well as Nia Frome’s essay “Tankies.” That should give you a more well-rounded view.
There’s an ongoing campaign by the usual suspects to pretend the word doesn’t have a definition beyond “epithet for The Real Left used by ignorant libtards.” Usually followed by a wall of text containing circular references as citations.
Do you also have an evil gun word to refer to people defending socialdemocracy? Do you call them “bombies” for defending the socialdemocracy in EU states that helped bomb Libya and Yugoslavia and destroyed millions of lives in the process? Do you call them “dronies” for voting for the democrats that threw missiles with drones on brown children during the Obama administration?
Or is the usage of militaristic sounding bad words reserved for those who defend the revolution that saved Europe from Nazism, that industrialized Eastern Europe and saved it from extermination and colonization, saving a hundred million lives in the process from hunger, genocide, disease and exploitation?
Are your bad words reserved for those, and not for the leftists in Spain (my homeland) who refused to repress the fascists during the Spanish Second Republic and allowed a civil war that ended up millions of deaths and in 40 years of fascism? No evil military word for those?
Highly authoritarian leftists
There is actually technically no such thing as an authoritarian leftist. Leftism is defined as more egalitarian/less hierarchical. Tankies are right wingers that have been pushed into the same spaces as leftists because they are against Western nationalism.
Also, because setting up a “Left Wing” country or society doesn’t mean people with a Right Wing outlook on life cease to exist. They have to candy coat their beliefs in the language of Leftism but that doesn’t make it leftism.
You’ve fallen into the trap. Political stances aren’t on a spectrum, they’re multi dimensional
Some leftists believe in anarchy, in a lack of hard boundaries and a more organic cultural resistance to bad actors. Some believe in rigid structure, in the rules creating equity and equality.
Tankies believe in an authoritarian, top down force that will impress ideology onto the masses.
All lefties believe in equity and/or equality. That’s the common thread. Tankies are crazy high on the authoritarian vs anarchy spectrum, but they genuinely think that road will lead to an equitable society
You’re right about politicial ideas being more than 1 dimensional, but I think of the left-right spectrum as one specific measurement.
Then what is it measuring? Right and left are directions, they’re labels that are extremely contextual
I genuinely don’t know which of many axis you might be referring to. I think you’re probably gesturing to something like equal/inequal distribution of power, but you could also mean progressive vs regressive, or even liberal vs fascist
The word Tankie originates from 1950s British Communist circles. Specifically, it was used by British Communists to derisively describe their comrades who supported the 1956 invasion of Hungary by the Soviet Union.
Images of the Soviet invasion featured a lot of tanks, hence, “Tankie”.
After that died down, the term didn’t come back into use really, until the 2010s, when leftists on the internet started using it in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. It was fun to bring back a stupid sounding, incredibly niche, British slang word.
At some point the word breached containment and started to be used by liberals, in a very cavilier sort of way. I’ve seen people use Tankie to describe anyone from Marxist-Leninists, to Marxists generally, to Leftists generally, weird right-wingers who converted to Russian Orthodoxy, pro-Palestine activists, mods of Lemmy instances someone doesn’t like.
Shit, I’ve seen literal Anarchist get called Tankies.
Basically, it’s a meaningless nothing word now, that’s a bit like your boomer grandpa who still thinks it’s the Red Scare, calling Joe Biden a Commie Pinko.
I really appreciate the summary you provided. I’m sure the user that asked got downvoted for a reason. I’ve never felt comfortable asking myself. I’ve googled it, read other explanations, and have always decided I just don’t get it. A big part of that is I read comments that are all over the spectrum and have a response from somebody saying they are a tankie. I never even heard of the term until I got on here like two years ago and it just feels like it’s a “I disagree with you so I’m going to call you a niche name that’s popular only on this particular platform” vernacular.
I wish it would die out because it’s been so diluted of meaning in this community.
This was answered multiple times in the days prior. Why did you only respond to the explanation that defends tankies?
Did I sign up for some kind of course you’re instructing or do you just generally feel entitled to try grading engagement in an open community discussion?