• DrDystopia@lemy.lol
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    25
    ·
    24 days ago

    Where’s the logical fallacy? Sure, there’s a fair bit of prejudice and generalisation-based discrimination against men in this comic, but no logical fallacies as far as I can see. Perhaps you could help me spot it in this comic?

    And I’ve personally become accustomed to being called a slut for not wanting random hookups with men while online dating, so it’s not about logic anyways.

    • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      24 days ago

      This falls under the fallacy of composition.

      The error is treating a group as if it were a single, internally consistent person, and then accusing that “person” of hypocrisy.

      • Men say X
      • Men say Y
      • X and Y are hypocritical

      Therefore: men who say either X or Y are hypocrites.

      That conclusion only follows if it’s the same individuals doing both X and Y. When it isn’t, the reasoning breaks.

      • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        18
        ·
        edit-2
        24 days ago

        It’s not. It presents a pattern of behavior as hypocritical, it does not make the assertion that this scenario is hypocritical therefore all men are hypocritical. At most it asserts that everyone who says the 1st panel is hypocritical, but since that’s the subject of the inherently hyperbolic premise it’s a real big stretch to say it’s fallacious (without entrenching yourself in the claim that all hyperbole is fallacious - which is true, but is effectively meaningless since that inconsistency is the whole objective of using a hyperbolic structure)

        • Katana314@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          23 days ago
          1. Panel shows a man with a canvas and palette. He appears to be a man.
          2. ”I am going to make an art.”

          Commenters furiously scrambling out to reject the premise that all men are artists capable of producing the Mona Lisa

        • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          24 days ago

          it does not make the assertion that because this scenario is hypocritical therefore all men are hypocritical.

          I didn’t say it did.

          What it does do is equivocate the ‘panel 1 men’ and the ‘panel 3 men’, and by pointing out the hypocrisy of those two behaviors, they are therefore implying that you’re a hypocrite if you say what’s in panel 1.

          • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            13
            ·
            24 days ago

            Yes, I did explicitly address that. This is a hyperbolic presentation - nowhere does it make the claim that all men who say “Women need to be more honest [etc]” are hypocrites, it presents the situation that men who say “Women need to be more honest [etc]” are so often hypocrites that the narrator is unsurprised when this once again turns out to be the case.

            • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              24 days ago

              nowhere does it make the claim that all men who say “Women need to be more honest [etc]” are hypocrites

              It shows the same man saying two hypocritical things, followed immediately by the woman saying that the panel 3 behavior is what she expected from the man saying the panel 1 statement.

              Yes, it absolutely does make the claim that ‘panel 1 men’ are hypocrites. It could not be more obvious.

              • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                11
                ·
                edit-2
                24 days ago

                But it textually says the opposite of what you’re saying it’s claim is - it says this was an expectation, not an assertion. Nowhere does it make that the claim you’re claiming it claims. Saying “this is commonly the case” is not the same thing as saying “this is always the case”.

                • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  24 days ago

                  it says this was an expectation, not an assertion.

                  The comic ends not with an expectation, but with the statement that an expectation that already existed was correct. In other words, ‘it was correct of me to expect a man who says women should directly/honestly reject someone, to react badly when I directly/honestly reject him’

                  She is absolutely indirectly asserting that it is correct to expect ‘panel 1 men’ to hypocritically exhibit ‘panel 3 behavior’.

                  • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    8
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    24 days ago

                    Alright and while you may disagree with them, that is beside the point: where is there a logical fallacy? It does not make the assertion that all men are X/Y or that all men who say X will say Y, it makes the assertion that their expectation, that a man who does X will often say Y, was correct. That is not a logical fallacy.

        • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          24 days ago

          It’s making a (weak) generalization that such conduct can typically be expected. Would the ironic derision in the comic work as well if the guy in the first panel were a different guy? No: we’d scratch our heads & think well, those are different guys.

          It’s hyperbole operating on the same kind of faulty generalization that gives us stereotypes. Rhetorically, it’s not that far removed from boomer humor.

          • Nalivai@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            23 days ago

            “A priest and a rabbi walks into a bar…”
            “The joke is stupid because it gives a generalization that all the priest and rabbis are always walking into bars” - you, the intellectual.

            • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              23 days ago

              Nah, that’s a conventional structure/genre lacking any commentary on typical expectation. If the rest of the joke posed ragebait derision that only works well by asserting a generalization, then the analogy would be better. Read better.

              • Nalivai@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                23 days ago

                Read better, said a person who’s media comprehension is so poor, they can’t read past their butthurt

                • lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  23 days ago

                  You can’t even do a proper analogy or address relevant points raised, so you’ve got no business claiming powers to comprehend much.

      • AnaisRim@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        ·
        24 days ago

        If only the comic author had crammed an entire dissertation worth of caveats in four panels to satisfy your need for completeness!

        • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          23 days ago

          Actually, all they had to do was make the man in panel 1 and the man in panel 3 not the same man, to not have been shitty in the way I pointed out.

          It’s very simple.

    • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      24 days ago

      I’m just a random person scrolling through the comments, but it’s a strawman fallacy in this instance.

    • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      24 days ago

      And when you ask how you can be both a virgin and a slut they make you eat a lipstick and shove you in a locker