Never claimed they don’t. The Russian propaganda commonly demonizes and dehumanizes Ukrainian(-soldier)s. They also like to pretend that they are actually doing this for the Ukrainian people (like the US). Do you think that Russian soldiers commit war crimes because they are inherently evil?
That’s a dangerously naive mindset. Anyone can be tricked into committing war crimes. It isn’t just certain groups that are inherently susceptible. Normal people are very capable of atrocities. Fascism and of course capitalism specialize in incentivizing said atrocities.
You’re not familiar at all with what propaganda is? What dehumanization is? What nationalism is? What capitalism is? That’s how.
How about I ask another question. Who specifically are the groups susceptible to war crimes. Point at them. Every single russian? How do you identify them? Every single American? Every single German? Every single British person? Every single person from sudan? War crimes and atrocities and the like are carried out basically globally by every people. You really think it’s just select people or do you think maybe it’s something that humans are susceptible to and we should guard against? Don’t be naive and assume you’re special.
Listen I say this is someone who’s looking out for your own good. I want you to educate yourself on how easy it is for fascism to infect people. Read They Thought They Were Free. Understand that Nazis weren’t comic book villains. They were for the most part regular people that fell for the grift. That went along with it cuz it was easy. That you couldn’t look at them and identify them by their evil eyes. Because people that think Nazis were some kind of comic book evil villain instead of regular people who did Evil are people who are going to fall for the same thing. They don’t understand how easy it is to fall for fascism. They’re the reason fascism has overtaken the world again. Because they think it couldn’t happen to them.
Ordinary Men is another book on this topic, mostly following a group of older police officers who turned into perpetrators of genocide. It affected me deeply. It’s based on interviews and Nuremburg testimony.
This just comes across as too prejustifying become a war criminal.
It ignores all the people who resisted and all those who resisted and died.
You have already decided you would rather survive by murdering and raping and being a good soilder and that’s all on you.
You are what allows fascists to operate and that was the point of the thread. You’ve been given enough rope on your his and you used it all thinking you were winning.
What an absurd comment. What an enormous straw man you’ve managed to build here.
Truly this is the mindset that scares me about the future. The idea that education and knowledge and preparedness should be discouraged. The idea that being able to look at and identify the trends of impending fascism should be discouraged. You’re like an anti-vaxxer. The disease of fascism Rises and you sit there without a mask.
Let’s agree to disagree. We clearly have very different ideas on human nature and I don’t think either of us is an adequately educated physiological professional to hold a sensicle disscusion on the topic
We do agree that one shouldn’t kill or rape people, however were we disagree is that you think that someone can’t do something without finding it wrong if they had an objektive look at the facts. Do you think someone shooting a dog that is attack ing their child is a evil person? Do you think the majority of people couldn’t be convinced that a certain group of people is subhuman, more similar to an animal perhaps, not be treated as a human? Do you not think that the majority of couldn’t be made believe that these subhumans are attacking your country men, practically your family?
To name a more harmless example: most people will continue to buy products even they know they are partially being manufactured by slaves, even if they know that the production conditions of these products cause many deaths, even though this isn’t a life or death situation for them.
Your idealism is honorable, however I think you expect to much from humanity
It’s not, that’s the point. People are made believe that they are equivalent
pity you weren’t born several decades ago, I think your life’s calling would have been defending the nazis at Nuremburg. that’s the same argument they used to try to absolve themselves of personal responsibility for their war crimes.
The crimes the nazis committed are on a bit of different level than those committed by Russian soldiers, so please don’t relativize them.
To follow along with the point, I have on multiple occasions heard the sentenment expressed, most recently in a well known podcast(I can look for it if you want to), that World War II soldiers that killed German civilians aren’t that bad because the Germans were nazis. Ukraine government/military/parts of the population being nazis is common in Russian propaganda. Don’t you think those people could be convinced that it’s okay to kill Ukrainian civilians?
Many of the international courts do like to overlook war crimes committed by the “good guys”, also legality≠morality
In general I think there has been a miscommunication. Do I think that people committing war crimes, under any whatever circumstance, have done nothing wrong? No. But if you look at the laws, there are circumstances were a crime is viewed specially. For example were I live if you get drunk and kill someone you will not be punished for murder, but for not being able to now your limits with alcohol. Or if someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to kill someone you will not be considered guilty in the way a murderer would.
To get to the IDF soldiers, no I don’t think the propaganda excuses rape, they have done something wrong. However I don’t think they are inherently evil people that deserve to die or should be permanently excluded from society. I don’t think there lives should be considered expendable or worth less
Never claimed they don’t. The Russian propaganda commonly demonizes and dehumanizes Ukrainian(-soldier)s. They also like to pretend that they are actually doing this for the Ukrainian people (like the US). Do you think that Russian soldiers commit war crimes because they are inherently evil?
deleted by creator
That’s a dangerously naive mindset. Anyone can be tricked into committing war crimes. It isn’t just certain groups that are inherently susceptible. Normal people are very capable of atrocities. Fascism and of course capitalism specialize in incentivizing said atrocities.
deleted by creator
You’re not familiar at all with what propaganda is? What dehumanization is? What nationalism is? What capitalism is? That’s how.
How about I ask another question. Who specifically are the groups susceptible to war crimes. Point at them. Every single russian? How do you identify them? Every single American? Every single German? Every single British person? Every single person from sudan? War crimes and atrocities and the like are carried out basically globally by every people. You really think it’s just select people or do you think maybe it’s something that humans are susceptible to and we should guard against? Don’t be naive and assume you’re special.
deleted by creator
Listen I say this is someone who’s looking out for your own good. I want you to educate yourself on how easy it is for fascism to infect people. Read They Thought They Were Free. Understand that Nazis weren’t comic book villains. They were for the most part regular people that fell for the grift. That went along with it cuz it was easy. That you couldn’t look at them and identify them by their evil eyes. Because people that think Nazis were some kind of comic book evil villain instead of regular people who did Evil are people who are going to fall for the same thing. They don’t understand how easy it is to fall for fascism. They’re the reason fascism has overtaken the world again. Because they think it couldn’t happen to them.
Ordinary Men is another book on this topic, mostly following a group of older police officers who turned into perpetrators of genocide. It affected me deeply. It’s based on interviews and Nuremburg testimony.
This just comes across as too prejustifying become a war criminal.
It ignores all the people who resisted and all those who resisted and died.
You have already decided you would rather survive by murdering and raping and being a good soilder and that’s all on you.
You are what allows fascists to operate and that was the point of the thread. You’ve been given enough rope on your his and you used it all thinking you were winning.
What an absurd comment. What an enormous straw man you’ve managed to build here.
Truly this is the mindset that scares me about the future. The idea that education and knowledge and preparedness should be discouraged. The idea that being able to look at and identify the trends of impending fascism should be discouraged. You’re like an anti-vaxxer. The disease of fascism Rises and you sit there without a mask.
What on Earth are you babbling about?
deleted by creator
Literally no one is saying that. You sound ridiculous.
Let’s agree to disagree. We clearly have very different ideas on human nature and I don’t think either of us is an adequately educated physiological professional to hold a sensicle disscusion on the topic
deleted by creator
We do agree that one shouldn’t kill or rape people, however were we disagree is that you think that someone can’t do something without finding it wrong if they had an objektive look at the facts. Do you think someone shooting a dog that is attack ing their child is a evil person? Do you think the majority of people couldn’t be convinced that a certain group of people is subhuman, more similar to an animal perhaps, not be treated as a human? Do you not think that the majority of couldn’t be made believe that these subhumans are attacking your country men, practically your family?
To name a more harmless example: most people will continue to buy products even they know they are partially being manufactured by slaves, even if they know that the production conditions of these products cause many deaths, even though this isn’t a life or death situation for them.
Your idealism is honorable, however I think you expect to much from humanity
deleted by creator
It’s not, that’s the point. People are made believe that they are equivalent
The crimes the nazis committed are on a bit of different level than those committed by Russian soldiers, so please don’t relativize them.
To follow along with the point, I have on multiple occasions heard the sentenment expressed, most recently in a well known podcast(I can look for it if you want to), that World War II soldiers that killed German civilians aren’t that bad because the Germans were nazis. Ukraine government/military/parts of the population being nazis is common in Russian propaganda. Don’t you think those people could be convinced that it’s okay to kill Ukrainian civilians?
deleted by creator
Many of the international courts do like to overlook war crimes committed by the “good guys”, also legality≠morality
In general I think there has been a miscommunication. Do I think that people committing war crimes, under any whatever circumstance, have done nothing wrong? No. But if you look at the laws, there are circumstances were a crime is viewed specially. For example were I live if you get drunk and kill someone you will not be punished for murder, but for not being able to now your limits with alcohol. Or if someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to kill someone you will not be considered guilty in the way a murderer would.
To get to the IDF soldiers, no I don’t think the propaganda excuses rape, they have done something wrong. However I don’t think they are inherently evil people that deserve to die or should be permanently excluded from society. I don’t think there lives should be considered expendable or worth less