I am more than happy to have a discussion, I’ve tried to outline my views and understanding of the situation in a clear and concise way and I invite any and all questions made in good faith.
My personal politics do not even remotely align with America, even on Iran I’m fully aware that America has only selfish intentions, and am appalled by it.
This is the first time in my adult life that I’ve even considered an invasion to be in any way beneficial (which would only be a by-product in this situation)
But the Iranians around me are telling me their choices are either:
get shot, arrested, executed by their own government
or invite a foreign power who might give them a little more personal freedom while milking them dry of their oil and resources
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing? After Russia it’s already the most sanctioned country in the world, and those sanctions have contributed to the discontent that fuels these protests.
This is the first time in my adult life that I’ve even considered an invasion to be in any way beneficial
Liberals oppose every war but the current one.
But the Iranians around me are telling me
They’re expats or n generations removed. They’re not in Iran, don’t know what’s really going on there and don’t speak for those who are and do.
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing?
The international community:
After Russia it’s already the most sanctioned country in the world, and those sanctions have contributed to the discontent that fuels these protests.
Correct, and that’s exactly why the “international community” shouldn’t be imposing illegal sanctions in the first place. They’re not imposing collective punishment on the Iranian people out of the goodness of their hearts. They care about Iranians exactly as much as they care about Palestinians, namely: not a rat’s ass. Despite the bleeding heart rhetoric, the sanctions are for furthering imperialist interests, predominantly those of the US and Israel. They want regime change that vassalizes Iran.
It’s certainly not diplomacy and it’s not coercion. It is war conducted by economic means, all designed to produce an economic crisis and social unrest leading to a fall of the government.
Thanks for applying your preconceived political label to me, very reductive. I don’t use American political labels like that and if you want to get an actual idea of my stance ask specific questions.
They’re not expats, they’re refugees that left as soon as they turned 18, and spent years living in Turkey with other Iranian refugees. It was the best place for them (more open socially but still easy for them to get to) to live until Erdogan started becoming more aggressive with deporting refugees and they had to leave Turkey too. Their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc are still there and are in active contact. Thank you again for making a sweeping generalisation instead of asking a question or even reading my other comments.
You’re right that sanctions are a form of economic warfare, totally agree that it only truly hurts the people. But tell me this, can economic prosperity translate into a better life for the people when women are beaten and abducted on the street by the government funded morality police? When by law a womans life is worth half that of a man? When a man can exploit that to get away with murder by killing a woman from a poor family that can’t afford to pay for him to be punished and are forced to accept compensation payment from him? When all women are legally owned by their fathers and husbands?
This most recent round of protests was sparked by economic woes yes, but what about the Green Movement? What about the Mahsa Amini protests? Mahsa Amini especially you should be aware of, it was only 3-4 years ago that millions across the country were furious about her death in police custody for not adhering to mandatory hijab rules. And yes, after protesting for months, after hundreds died and thousands were arrested, and multiple individuals were executed, the government graciously relaxed the hijab rules. If you’re from the west looking in that story ends in a nice little neat package. If you’re a woman in Iran then that brief whiff of freedom doesn’t last long, and slowly but surely that freedom is gradually eroded until you’re back where you were before the protests. The only existing remnant of that is the fact women in rich parts of the cities wont be immediately abducted by the morality police for having a little hair on display.
Please to anyone else replying, approach me with enough respect to read my paragraphs before deciding who I am and what I think.
I’m not who you were arguing with. I don’t care for the rest of your argument so I didn’t write a response to that. I just didn’t like you mislabeling an important political term
I called it American because it’s not a term that’s used in my political sphere and one that doesn’t apply to me.
To avoid being mislabeled as a liberal myself I’ll say specifically that in my personal politics I don’t support a market economy but instead a mixed economy where the basic needs of the people are met by the government and either free or subsidised (think housing, transport, water, electricity, food). I don’t support the hoarding of private property by the wealthy along with the subsequent housing market manipulation.
What I do support is political freedom, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, and freedom of expression.
I have other stances and beliefs outside the narrow frame of “liberal” too if anyone has any specific questions.
I read the Wikipedia article on Liberalism and gave you a brief run through of how I feel about it. I agree with some tenants but you’re ignoring that the two of the most impactful parts (economy and private ownership) do not align with me and that it’s not a label I identify with or even use in my political sphere.
Give the same respect to me that I’m giving to you.
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing?
They should be condeming the US and not participating in the criminal economical blockade? Iran wouldnt be so tight if they weren’t blockaded it’s literally the same story every single time, korea/venezuela/cuba/syria/iran, and y’all always play ball and follow the western stance, you are either useful idiots or just cynical assholes.
I am more than happy to have a discussion, I’ve tried to outline my views and understanding of the situation in a clear and concise way and I invite any and all questions made in good faith.
My personal politics do not even remotely align with America, even on Iran I’m fully aware that America has only selfish intentions, and am appalled by it.
This is the first time in my adult life that I’ve even considered an invasion to be in any way beneficial (which would only be a by-product in this situation) But the Iranians around me are telling me their choices are either:
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing? After Russia it’s already the most sanctioned country in the world, and those sanctions have contributed to the discontent that fuels these protests.
Liberals oppose every war but the current one.
They’re expats or n generations removed. They’re not in Iran, don’t know what’s really going on there and don’t speak for those who are and do.
The international community:
Correct, and that’s exactly why the “international community” shouldn’t be imposing illegal sanctions in the first place. They’re not imposing collective punishment on the Iranian people out of the goodness of their hearts. They care about Iranians exactly as much as they care about Palestinians, namely: not a rat’s ass. Despite the bleeding heart rhetoric, the sanctions are for furthering imperialist interests, predominantly those of the US and Israel. They want regime change that vassalizes Iran.
Jeffrey Sachs: Engineering Iran’s Unrest
Thanks for applying your preconceived political label to me, very reductive. I don’t use American political labels like that and if you want to get an actual idea of my stance ask specific questions.
They’re not expats, they’re refugees that left as soon as they turned 18, and spent years living in Turkey with other Iranian refugees. It was the best place for them (more open socially but still easy for them to get to) to live until Erdogan started becoming more aggressive with deporting refugees and they had to leave Turkey too. Their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc are still there and are in active contact. Thank you again for making a sweeping generalisation instead of asking a question or even reading my other comments.
You’re right that sanctions are a form of economic warfare, totally agree that it only truly hurts the people. But tell me this, can economic prosperity translate into a better life for the people when women are beaten and abducted on the street by the government funded morality police? When by law a womans life is worth half that of a man? When a man can exploit that to get away with murder by killing a woman from a poor family that can’t afford to pay for him to be punished and are forced to accept compensation payment from him? When all women are legally owned by their fathers and husbands?
This most recent round of protests was sparked by economic woes yes, but what about the Green Movement? What about the Mahsa Amini protests? Mahsa Amini especially you should be aware of, it was only 3-4 years ago that millions across the country were furious about her death in police custody for not adhering to mandatory hijab rules. And yes, after protesting for months, after hundreds died and thousands were arrested, and multiple individuals were executed, the government graciously relaxed the hijab rules. If you’re from the west looking in that story ends in a nice little neat package. If you’re a woman in Iran then that brief whiff of freedom doesn’t last long, and slowly but surely that freedom is gradually eroded until you’re back where you were before the protests. The only existing remnant of that is the fact women in rich parts of the cities wont be immediately abducted by the morality police for having a little hair on display.
Please to anyone else replying, approach me with enough respect to read my paragraphs before deciding who I am and what I think.
Liberal isn’t an American label. You are a liberal.
Great thanks again for ignoring everything else I said and deciding for yourself what I think without asking a single question.
I’m not who you were arguing with. I don’t care for the rest of your argument so I didn’t write a response to that. I just didn’t like you mislabeling an important political term
I called it American because it’s not a term that’s used in my political sphere and one that doesn’t apply to me.
To avoid being mislabeled as a liberal myself I’ll say specifically that in my personal politics I don’t support a market economy but instead a mixed economy where the basic needs of the people are met by the government and either free or subsidised (think housing, transport, water, electricity, food). I don’t support the hoarding of private property by the wealthy along with the subsequent housing market manipulation.
What I do support is political freedom, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, and freedom of expression.
I have other stances and beliefs outside the narrow frame of “liberal” too if anyone has any specific questions.
Gives list of reasons why you’re a liberal. You clearly don’t know what liberal means. You should try reading some books 白左.
I read the Wikipedia article on Liberalism and gave you a brief run through of how I feel about it. I agree with some tenants but you’re ignoring that the two of the most impactful parts (economy and private ownership) do not align with me and that it’s not a label I identify with or even use in my political sphere.
Give the same respect to me that I’m giving to you.
Removed by mod
They should be condeming the US and not participating in the criminal economical blockade? Iran wouldnt be so tight if they weren’t blockaded it’s literally the same story every single time, korea/venezuela/cuba/syria/iran, and y’all always play ball and follow the western stance, you are either useful idiots or just cynical assholes.