What’s the lie about Ukraine? That one seems pretty cut n dry (for international relations anyway)
it’s almost the same script of Syria too lol
btw, in case people insist the US is not involved at all. This is US Secretary of Treasury, Scott Bessent, bragging about the success of the deliberate economic pressure put on by the US on Iran. Play from minute 29:17.
They’re telling the truth about Iran killing huge numbers of their own citizens to crush the protests. It was in the 30000 range like a week ago. They are lying that they actually care about that.
No, no, no you dont understand. This time the humanitarian concerns of neocons is real and definitely not a pretext for regime change.
Hi.I’am from iran please ask me anything that you have doubt about it and i probably able to show you evidence. (Sorry for bad English)
From what I have read Iran doesn’t seem like a very good place to be these days. A lot of violence is shown, especially against women and girls. Religious extremism also looks quite scary to me. My question is how do you feel about your country and how is it different from the way it’s being represented in the media? (Assuming you track western news I guess).
Thank you for taking questions, I hope you and your family are safe and cared for.
How’s the internet access in the country right now? Only people with starlink get to connect at all?
so for now we can hardly find some proxy config for access to internet. in general i can say 6/10 of people have access but we have some problem. in past 5 years they try to make Iran internet to intranet you can read about it here : https://powell-software.com/resources/blog/difference-between-intranet-and-internet/ in the one of the firsts day of Protests (Jan 8 2026) they change our access from internet to “iran intranet” and also closing telephone lines(They wanted the protesters to have no access to calls, so that they would no longer be able to communicate with each other even by calling.), and this status continued for 13 day i guess. and from then until now they filter some of proxy protocol like vless, but this mfs can every time they want change this conditions to intranet.i hope i help ,sorry again for my english.
Ahh, I see the over bearing, authoritarian, theocratic government we instilled is now no longer useful.
Who do you think “installed” the Iranian government?
I believe Iran is going through a new worker-led revolution and that the current theocratic regime is certainly gunning down protesters and the US is scared of what’ll happen if the workers rise to power so they want regime change instead.
It started with a currency crash (which is most likely a result of US manipulation). That failed, because the Iranian government didn’t immediately oppress business owners whose demands (not to sell at a loss) were found to be reasonable.
Then at least four different groups (including monarchists and Kurdish separatists) started killing civilians, police forces, setting mosques on fire, and so on (there’s footage for all of this, if you have the stomach to watch it).
The Iranian government responded to that by shutting down the internet, and with force. When they shut down the internet the riots more or less stopped, which signals that the operations were conducted from abroad, the obvious candidates being the US and Israel.
Furthermore, there have been millions of Iranians rallying in support of their government all over their country, which makes sense as foreign led violence can only push you closer to your government.
You can’t have a workers revolution without an organized vanguard and class consciousness. This is just old school terrorism by reactionary groups supporting a regime change to install a US puppet, like we’ve seen time and time again.
I make no moral judgement on the government’s action, I’m just recounting the timeline of events.
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says the US supporter
…tune in tomorrow for the latest from “every accusation is a confession”
The US Empire and its vassals clearly want regime change in Iran. It’s a key strategic area for the Belt and Road Initiative, has lots of oil, and is the biggest regional supporter of the Palestinian resistance and the biggest threat to Israel. You’re letting yourself get swept up in a western-backed regime change operation on the side of Israel and the US, ie you’re projecting with your claims of fascism.
Not the other dude and I am buying what you’re selling, but the only source being some rando on Twitter doesn’t seem sufficient.
There are other sources, but many are on twitter, Telegram, etc due to the internet blockade.
That’s fair, it’s hard to find credible sources atm due to media being consolidated against Iran and the like but if no one beats me to it I’ll try putting sources for specific claims for each thing later. Do you need a source for a particular claim? Mossad involvement? (For the record, Mike Pompeo is the former CIA director so he’s very credible when boasting about intelligence involvement lol)
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No, you’re aiding fascists by siding with Israel and the US Empire. There’s no organized, working class movement in Iran that was behind the protests, and in such conditions spontaneity gets swept up behind whatever is actively stirring the pot. Further, it’s factually proven that Israel and the US have been arming rioters and offering reward money for kills.
This is why reading theory is necessary for anyone on the left, otherwise you make fundamental errors and end up supporting fascists that would be far worse for Iranians than their current theocracy.
Sounds a lot like you’re supporting fascism to me.
I’m a communist, I support the free determination of all people, I just don’t support killing random ass civilians in the name of your self determination, and I wouldn’t trust any separatist movement that willingly sides with the US and/or Israel, for obvious reasons. I believe that the Kurdish struggle matters and they have the seeds to do something great, and this isn’t that.
The thing I think is that Iran is indeed an authoritarian theocratic regime and killed 3000 people confirmed by themselves, but so is Israel. The problem is the ipocricy in the judgement of a nation that should before look at it self and get that it’s not better than others. But we all know this
Most of those were civilians and security forces (2427 out of 3117). The other numbers floating around seem completely made up by NGOs and western media so it’s hard to know if there are more dead rioters.
how many is too many?
I agree, that’s why we all should condemn the western sanctions that made the local currency collapse and led people to starvation and violence
How many western regime change operations that inevitably create magnitudes more casualties is too many? Because that’s the “solution” that’s being talked about, not some actual people’s government
I’m not sure I understand the question, if you mean whether I trust any numbers the answer is no, but the government numbers are a good minimum estimate.
If the question is whether I support the Iranian government uncritically, the answer is also no, but based on past history it’s still an extremely stupid idea to support an intervention.
I believe Iranians deserve a break from the illegal sanctions that keep them struggling, once they can breathe they’ll decide in their own terms if they wanna reform or overthrow their government or whatever else.
Palestine also.
/s Yes they lied about Iraq but Iran is an authoritarian state that should be toppled. Two things can be true at once you know.
So many “fell for it again” awards need to be handed out these past few years.
What happens after it is toppled?
They greet us as liberators
That’s the problem
Freedom arrives in the form of an US-backed monarchy. Oh wait.
Democracy ofc then ISIS but one thing at a time
you know, installing some al-qaeda dissident on power but he’s totally fine now since he uses a suit.
Typical imperial core chauvinism. They know their governments are evil but still cling hard to the idea that they’re the best therefore every non western aligned country must be even more evil.
“If my country is evil while calling itself the leader of the free world, other countries must be super evil”
What was the lie about Ukraine?
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine?
The invasion was completely unprompted and nothing happened in the years immediately preceding it.
There’s a few to choose from. Like the war started in 2022. Ukraine doesn’t have a nazi problem. Euromaidan didn’t have any western interference. Zelensky doesn’t have Epstein ties.
Forgot the best one, Russia bombed it’s own gas pipeline!
This one is practically 200% proved that wasn’t the case so liberals behave like “I never said that”
They really have no shame, Biden straight up said they would destroy the pipeline if Russia ever did anything and so they did but media tried to spin it as if Russia did it 😅 that should be eye opening to anyone but americans have the memory span of a mosquito.
I know we like to spread misinformation online on this here .ml instance, but that might be too much even for you. Also, everyone knows that the war technicality started in 2014 when putin did the first invasion, I don’t even understand what kind of gotcha that might be
Which part of QinShiHuangsSchlong’s comment was misinformation? Can you articulate how and why? Further, the war started as a consequence of Donetsk and Luhansk seceding from Kiev into the Donetsk People’s Republic and Luhansk People’s Republic, following the far-right western-backed coup of Yanukovych. Once the Banderites took power and started oppressing ethnic Russians, the DPR and LPR seceded.
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The only people saying that are the clueless Americans. Everybody in Europe understands that the war started in 2014 when russia invaded Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea.
But this is wrong, still. Crimea joined the Russian Federation, and Donetsk and Luhansk seceded, in response to the far-right Banderite coup.
Ukraine has as much of a Nazi problem as the US, France, Germany, Poland, or any other country on the planet. Sure, there definitely are Neo-Nazis there - like everywhere else. But the narrative was that the government was “overrun” by them, where in fact the most right-wing party received 6% in 2014 and less than 2% in 2019. Meaning, as of right now, there no fundamentalist right-wingers in the parliament, much less so in the government.
The Banderites were the ones that overthrew Yanukovych, and as a consequence have been emboldened by the state. The far-right governs Ukraine.
Define “western interference”.
People sending food and blankets to the protesters? Yeah, there was that.
Western governments silently supporting whoever opposed Yanukovych? Possibly, maybe. But those people weren’t really doing much.
CIA/Mossad inciting the streets to rebel against the government in an attempt to coup Yanukovych and install a pro-western ruler? Yeah, that one’s lunacy. Yanukovych got in power because he promised a more pro-western route in politics, the people wanted to be a part of the EU and NATO since 2001. Then, in 2013 things were starting to look really promising for Ukraine, and exactly then Putin ordered Yanukovych to reverse course, because he was afraid about his oil contracts. When Yanukovych did that, people went to the streets.
From @yogthos@lemmy.ml
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA151VA/
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoW75J5bnnE | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/us-imperialism-and-the-ukraine-coup/
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made https://consortiumnews.com/2022/02/26/robert-parry-the-mess-that-nuland-made/
- Monthly Review Online, 2021: The Maidan massacre in Ukraine: revelations from trials and investigations https://mronline.org/2021/12/11/the-maidan-massacre-in-ukraine/
- Maidan coup thread https://archive.ph/BAxYc
- Coup details https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/29/evidence-of-us-backed-coup-in-kiev/
- Don’t Get it Wrong: Ukraine and “Israel” are Both Tools of US-EU Imperialism
- An article from August 2021 advocating inflicting a military defeat on Russia in Ukraine to subjugate it and draw it away from China https://nationalinterest.org/feature/strategy-avoiding-two-front-war-192137
- An important piece that reveals Washington, via CIA paramilitaries, has been fighting a proxy war against Russia in the Donbas since, it’s implied, 2014. https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-secret-cia-training-program-in-ukraine-helped-kyiv-prepare-for-russian-invasion-090052743.html
- NYT coup coverage with CIA involvement https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
- Nordstream US involvement evidence https://thegrayzone.com/2023/06/27/evidence-nord-stream-underwater-expedition/
- The US harvesting Ukraine for minerals https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-us-rare-earth-minerals-deal-8566241ea0e121a30437d845357055d8
None of the to-date released documents mention him as a guest or client of Epstein, so I don’t even know where is this coming from.
Kiev is a gangster state with immense corruption. I haven’t seen any direct Epstein ties, but it would be unsurprising.
The “secession” was made by russian troops illegally entering the sovereign territory of Ukraine. The “referendums” were made under threat of violence from armed russian soldiers.
The reality is that the war started because Ukrainians wanted to join the West, found oil and gas reserves and already had contracts with BP and Shell for extraction, all the while Moscow’s contracts were expiring in 2023.
Nah, this is bullshit. Yanukovych was very popular in the regions that seceded:
The Banderites wanted to move towards the imperialist west, but Yanukovych wanted to go with the Russian loan that didn’t require austerity politics and impoverishing Ukrainians even further. That’s why the west supported the coup.
That’s one of the most hilarious things I’ve read in a while :D
Laughter instead of responding isn’t a point.
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Secondly you’ve not provided any proof that Zelensky is a “gangster”
I think Cowbee said “Kiev is a gangster state with immense corruption” which is a bit different.
For almost 2 years, people have been violently kidnapped from the streets, thanks to this totally non-gangster state, after they loosened the laws (which Zelensky signed, BTW). For example, here (violence warning!) is a yesterday video from Odessa. And we get video like this every day. It’s like ICE in US, but much worse because people can’t protest against it due to ongoing war.
And recently we had a ton of corruption scandals tied to Zelensky’s inner circle. You can just scroll below, someone already linked.
I never accused Zelensky of being connected to Epstein, that was another commenter. I haven’t seen the claim myself yet.
Secondly, the massive corruption scandals in Ukraine are reported even by the west, so I figured you’d have seen it.
Third, the Russian Federation assisted the LPR and DPR after they requested Russian assistance against Kiev, who had been shelling them for a decade.
Not making anything up.
TACO
I’m no fan of American imperialism either but the regime in Iran is actively massacring their civilians on a scale never before seen during protests, I have Iranian friends and they know full well that America and Israel don’t have their best interests at heart, and yet they still want them to intervene because they don’t see any other way for change to happen. My Iranian friends don’t even really like Reza Pahlavi but he’s the most significant figure in these protests and so they’re supporting him purely in solidarity with the people.
It’s a very complicated and nuanced situation and it can’t really be reduced to a meme like this without losing important context.
You don’t need to know much about Iran at all to know for a fact that US intervention will make it worse, you just need to look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Palestine, and every other “repressive dictatorship liberated by US efforts” to see the consequences of invasion.
The protests in Iran are happening because people are literally dying due to impoverishment caused by western sanctions causing the local currency to implode. Focusing only on the government reaction during a period of military buildup Against Iran amounts to atrocity propaganda, however well-meaning your intentions are. It’s meant to create mixed feelings about the invasion amongst progressives “look at how dictatorial they are”
Nobody here is claiming that a US intervention would make things better, I think the point here that lying about the situation in Iran and Eastern Ukraine only helps the violent fascists in power in those places.
The nuance is that workers are being slaughtered by Putin and Khamenei and defending them just because the US doesn’t like them is only helping the fascists.
lying about the situation in Iran and Eastern Ukraine only helps the violent fascists in power in those places
Looking at history, it’s western intervention leading to far right in both though. Ukraine saved itself from Nazism and only after western-style capitalism took control have far-right movements taken place. As for Iran, I wish Mosaddeq hadn’t been ousted by the west too, but alas it’s again not “tankie lies” leading to violent regimes, it’s western meddling.
Nobody here is claiming that a US intervention would make things better
They absolutely are
You’re absolutely right that I have mixed feelings and am conflicted, I would love to say with 100% confidence that “Iran is different” but I can’t.
Part of the protestors anger is impoverishment caused by sanctions, it was certainly a big factor in this protest and at least a minor factor in every other protest.
But conversely these protests are also fueled by discontent with the treatment of women.
They’re also fueled by the thirsty people who are suffering from poor water management policies that ignored traditional irrigation methods in favor of the western approach of spraying huge amounts into the air to grow water hungry crops in a famously water scarce region. Fuck even Israel was egging on the protestors with the promise of sending water experts once the regime is gone.
I’m not supporting America invading but I do think that there are real humanitarian issues that need to be addressed.
What upsets me most is not that the rest of the world is silent and only “brave and compassionate” America is speaking against them, its that the Iranian people only have America to turn to, that the only countries that are “on their side” (from the view of the public) are America and Israel.
This regime is so quick to label any unrest in the country as foreign meddling but they themselves are the cause for half of the problems.
(also thank you for engaging me in good faith)
Believe me, I’m a communist, there’s nothing I wish more for Iran than a secular socialist government, land reform, LGBTQ and women’s rights, economic equality… Unfortunately, the west destroyed their most recent chance at this with the total sanctioning and military intervention against Mosaddeq, because British Petroleum’s interests in the region were more important than the lives of Iranians. CIA paying mafias to perform protests against the government, MI6 paying actors to destroy private property and pretend they were communists, military blockade of petroleum exports… The whole suite.
This is why I reject so much further western meddling. If Iran is to have a socialist government, it will be by itself without meddling, and the point of focus from the west should be, IMO, preventing sanctions and military action against the Iranian people. However bad the Iranian government is currently, the only alternative for now from what I see is ISIS or Israel, and neither is better, it’s the sad truth of geopolitics.
Hahaha you’re literally doing the thing. Good stuff
“My Venezuelan friends are celebrating”
Imagine having a nuanced opinion? Crazy
Nuance is when your opinions about other countries always coincidentally and conveniently line up with what the US government wants. Very nuanced, you incredible free thinker you.
Free thinking is when your opinions about other countries always coincentally and conviently line up with what NaZi Ruzzia wants.
Lol ah yes, the classic “me no nazi, me no nazi, you’re the nazi” while the guys you support throw up seig heils.
Like at a certain point, doesn’t it get boring when your one and only move is projection, and shameful when you’re not even good at that?
You’re so right, Brussels and Kyiv are complete sieg heil fests every day.
You’ve honestly got me there, believing Russian conspiracy theories would honestly be a lot more exciting than the boring real world.
Woah, how did all these Russian conspiracy theories get into my western news outlets?
Nuanced, like celebrating civilians from your own country being bombed 🤓
How many countries do you have to destroy before you stop falling for regime change justifications?
Don’t misunderstand, I’m not American, I don’t support America, in my personal and professional life I’ve been making every reasonable effort to decouple my life from America (hence why I’m on Lemmy)
I didn’t even say that I support America invading.
The reality of Iran is that every few years since the 1979 revolution the people become discontent enough to start protesting, and every time the government harshly cracks down on those protests, and in both the process and the after math, many people are killed by the government for protesting. That’s an oversimplification but serves to illustrate my point.
My knowledge and understanding is based on my Iranian friends, who fled the country as refugees and left their friends and families behind, because of the oppressive government.
Those same friends do not like America, but they aren’t left with any other options but to support America. Not a day goes by that they don’t complain about the willful ignorance of the European Union and the world at large for being silent, only last week did the EU even decide to label the IRGC as a terrorist group.
The UN and international courts should be the ones trying to intervene and at the very least stop the regime killing tens of thousands of their own people.
They “do not like the US” but they be doing their best to promote the US interests huh. Useful idiots that know they have no public support in their own country.
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What a fantastic excuse not to try. It’s not that you’re blisteringly ignorant, it’s just that everyone around you is mentally defective.
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Amazing how every documented historical fact that’s inconvenient to the genocidal US narrative suddenly became Kremlin Propaganda overnight. Those evil Russians must have a crystal ball, because boy do they end up being correct a shitload of the time
I am more than happy to have a discussion, I’ve tried to outline my views and understanding of the situation in a clear and concise way and I invite any and all questions made in good faith.
My personal politics do not even remotely align with America, even on Iran I’m fully aware that America has only selfish intentions, and am appalled by it.
This is the first time in my adult life that I’ve even considered an invasion to be in any way beneficial (which would only be a by-product in this situation) But the Iranians around me are telling me their choices are either:
- get shot, arrested, executed by their own government
- or invite a foreign power who might give them a little more personal freedom while milking them dry of their oil and resources
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing? After Russia it’s already the most sanctioned country in the world, and those sanctions have contributed to the discontent that fuels these protests.
This is the first time in my adult life that I’ve even considered an invasion to be in any way beneficial
Liberals oppose every war but the current one.
But the Iranians around me are telling me
They’re expats or n generations removed. They’re not in Iran, don’t know what’s really going on there and don’t speak for those who are and do.
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing?
The international community:
After Russia it’s already the most sanctioned country in the world, and those sanctions have contributed to the discontent that fuels these protests.
Correct, and that’s exactly why the “international community” shouldn’t be imposing illegal sanctions in the first place. They’re not imposing collective punishment on the Iranian people out of the goodness of their hearts. They care about Iranians exactly as much as they care about Palestinians, namely: not a rat’s ass. Despite the bleeding heart rhetoric, the sanctions are for furthering imperialist interests, predominantly those of the US and Israel. They want regime change that vassalizes Iran.
Jeffrey Sachs: Engineering Iran’s Unrest
It’s certainly not diplomacy and it’s not coercion. It is war conducted by economic means, all designed to produce an economic crisis and social unrest leading to a fall of the government.
Thanks for applying your preconceived political label to me, very reductive. I don’t use American political labels like that and if you want to get an actual idea of my stance ask specific questions.
They’re not expats, they’re refugees that left as soon as they turned 18, and spent years living in Turkey with other Iranian refugees. It was the best place for them (more open socially but still easy for them to get to) to live until Erdogan started becoming more aggressive with deporting refugees and they had to leave Turkey too. Their parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc are still there and are in active contact. Thank you again for making a sweeping generalisation instead of asking a question or even reading my other comments.
You’re right that sanctions are a form of economic warfare, totally agree that it only truly hurts the people. But tell me this, can economic prosperity translate into a better life for the people when women are beaten and abducted on the street by the government funded morality police? When by law a womans life is worth half that of a man? When a man can exploit that to get away with murder by killing a woman from a poor family that can’t afford to pay for him to be punished and are forced to accept compensation payment from him? When all women are legally owned by their fathers and husbands?
This most recent round of protests was sparked by economic woes yes, but what about the Green Movement? What about the Mahsa Amini protests? Mahsa Amini especially you should be aware of, it was only 3-4 years ago that millions across the country were furious about her death in police custody for not adhering to mandatory hijab rules. And yes, after protesting for months, after hundreds died and thousands were arrested, and multiple individuals were executed, the government graciously relaxed the hijab rules. If you’re from the west looking in that story ends in a nice little neat package. If you’re a woman in Iran then that brief whiff of freedom doesn’t last long, and slowly but surely that freedom is gradually eroded until you’re back where you were before the protests. The only existing remnant of that is the fact women in rich parts of the cities wont be immediately abducted by the morality police for having a little hair on display.
Please to anyone else replying, approach me with enough respect to read my paragraphs before deciding who I am and what I think.
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Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing?
They should be condeming the US and not participating in the criminal economical blockade? Iran wouldnt be so tight if they weren’t blockaded it’s literally the same story every single time, korea/venezuela/cuba/syria/iran, and y’all always play ball and follow the western stance, you are either useful idiots or just cynical assholes.
Your iranian friends are american bruh. Iranian diaspora protesting in the US are americans. If these “well meaning” iranians haven’t learned a thing about US intervention in the region, they’re not “well meaning”. They want their ex-country destroyed out of resentment and pettiness, just like the average miami cuban or venezuelan. These people do not understand “nuance” at all, they’re just full contrarians.
I mean like the entire protest origin is due to financial pressure caused by US sanctions, why are these “well meaning” US citizens iranians not protesting against their US goverment to relief the pressure on their own country and people?
I also have Iranian acquaintances, they’re dumb as shit and haven’t visited the country in their entire lives. They’d rather believe whatever bullshit western media / monarchists tell them to believe because they want to be accepted. Lies upon lies. Have you seen any videos from within Iran? They’re out there, in 2026 you can find videos that aren’t just on the news. I saw videos of terrorists with american weapons shooting into crowds of people, burning down mosques, killing police officers. Is this the fault of Iran? They did the same with every color revolution so far. Fund ideological nazis / wahhabists with billions of dollars in an attempt to overthrow a government. We just saw it with Syria, the playbook is the same.
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