Old enough to be considered a woman, but culturally it could have been as young as 16.
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! (Luke 1:41-42)
Mormons took that and really ran with it, as their a “Doctrine & Covenants” are much more blatant in support of rape. Joseph Smith told Emma Hale that God would destroy her for refusing to marry him.
I believe they were already married for many years before that. The threat of destruction was if she didn’t stay loyal to him in their marriage.
She’s specially mentioned because she was consistently against polygamy, so this is more accurately described as intimidation to stay married. It’s a stretch to say it supports rape, no more than marriage itself is a social/legal pressure for those married to have sex with each other.
They were not, and that’s not what it says, but you’re welcome to twist it however you like to believe differently - same as people do with the Bible.
If someone came up to your mom/sister/daughter and said “There’s a hidden sniper with his rifle trained on you right now. Marry me and stay loyal, or else he’ll shoot you” then you wouldn’t consider that to be rape? I most certainly would. Whenever you threaten someone with violence for refusing a sexual relationship, that is rape.
Yes. it can absolutely be spun that way, as I said. As most anything in the Bible can be. Let me ask this then. Could she have said no? And when would that have happened?
That was AFTER impregnation, though, and under duress from supernatural beings. I don’t think that’s the correct order of operations for valid consent…
No, the angel was telling her what was going to happen. It was speaking in future tense, and she agreed while talking to the angel.
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
I guess it’s consent. The master/deity or their aide comes to the servant and tells them of master’s will, the great plan. The servant says, yeah, okay.
Yet another fail in writing. Why not make it so God and Gabriel give her the choice, and she adamantly agrees? Remove all doubt from the story’s plot. Or better yet, add some drama, have Mary unsure, and Gabriel explains the importance (not that it’s already planned, but why her choice is key to the direction of salvation and all that). And she with some thought decides to do it.
Oh, right… that would give a woman some agency. Never mind.
She was called a woman by her cousin who was so old that John the Baptist’s birth was miraculous. She could have been older, not all women married young. But to be considered a woman she wouldn’t have been 13.
How old do you think the Virgin Mary was?
She was pubescent, and thus irrelevant to pedophilia.
Old enough to be considered a woman, but culturally it could have been as young as 16.
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! (Luke 1:41-42)
There wasn’t consent though. It can be spun that way, but biblically Mary was destined to carry, and screw any free will.
Mormons took that and really ran with it, as their a “Doctrine & Covenants” are much more blatant in support of rape. Joseph Smith told Emma Hale that God would destroy her for refusing to marry him.
How do they support rape? Or do you consider it rape of I tell I woman she’ll go to hell if she doesn’t consent?
Because in D&C 132:54, Emma is threatened with destruction if she refuses. That’s called rape by duress.
I believe they were already married for many years before that. The threat of destruction was if she didn’t stay loyal to him in their marriage. She’s specially mentioned because she was consistently against polygamy, so this is more accurately described as intimidation to stay married. It’s a stretch to say it supports rape, no more than marriage itself is a social/legal pressure for those married to have sex with each other.
They were not, and that’s not what it says, but you’re welcome to twist it however you like to believe differently - same as people do with the Bible.
If someone came up to your mom/sister/daughter and said “There’s a hidden sniper with his rifle trained on you right now. Marry me and stay loyal, or else he’ll shoot you” then you wouldn’t consider that to be rape? I most certainly would. Whenever you threaten someone with violence for refusing a sexual relationship, that is rape.
She did consent though. It’s in the account.
Yes. it can absolutely be spun that way, as I said. As most anything in the Bible can be. Let me ask this then. Could she have said no? And when would that have happened?
Are we really debating the sky wizard role playing game book?
No, just debating which set of rules we’re playing by.
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
It’s in Luke chapter 1. I mean a lot of people believe believe none of it happened, whatever. But consent was part of the account.
That was AFTER impregnation, though, and under duress from supernatural beings. I don’t think that’s the correct order of operations for valid consent…
No, the angel was telling her what was going to happen. It was speaking in future tense, and she agreed while talking to the angel.
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
I guess it’s consent. The master/deity or their aide comes to the servant and tells them of master’s will, the great plan. The servant says, yeah, okay.
Yet another fail in writing. Why not make it so God and Gabriel give her the choice, and she adamantly agrees? Remove all doubt from the story’s plot. Or better yet, add some drama, have Mary unsure, and Gabriel explains the importance (not that it’s already planned, but why her choice is key to the direction of salvation and all that). And she with some thought decides to do it.
Oh, right… that would give a woman some agency. Never mind.
Could have been as young as 13, as Virgin generally meant not ready for sex yet.
however it is a misconception that people married and had kids young in the past. generally it was in your early 20s even in antiquity
She was called a woman by her cousin who was so old that John the Baptist’s birth was miraculous. She could have been older, not all women married young. But to be considered a woman she wouldn’t have been 13.