actually awesome and fast search engine (depending on which instance you use) with no trashy AI and ADs results also great for privacy, if you don’t know which instance to use go to https://searx.space/ and choose an instance closest to you
I mean it’s often better than nothing, but it is a meta search that still often uses Google or Bing to gather results. IMHO, cut off the need for that data on the whole and use an option like Mojeek
For all their talk of doing things different with their own index and rankings. Mojeek is following exactly what Google did. It’s still an ad based business model that makes users into products to be sold to advertisers. They’re good now, while still trying to build market share. But once their investors get hungry, the enshitification will commence.
we make money mainly from our api, our investors are patient private capital and we don’t take vc, appreciate your point but these are fundamentally different situations, our ads (when they run) will also be contextual so more of a ddg situation than a “makes users into products to be sold to advertisers”
fair enough if it’s not for you though
I don’t know if the comparison is inaccurate.
You make money from advertising to your users (“ddg situation” notwithstanding), are beholden to your investors (private status notwithstanding) and need to see more users to increase revenue. The person above you is saying that this model is what will drive you to eventually be as bad as Google. Do you understand?
We make money from our API, what they’re referencing is a beta ads programme which was running
API index access is an important difference.
If it was only that, without public facing ad driven search, I’d be more impressed.Maybe if you removed the adds, and severely rate limited your own public facing search, so it’s more of a demo than an actual service. This would force you to solely make money off the API access, without directly competing against those customers.
That would be an honest buisness model. One that doesn’t turn users into eyeballs for advertising. Which seems to me, to be the most insidious problem of the modern internet.
Agree to disagree here, but I’ll refer to Cory Doctorow for a contextual vs behavioral/tracking ads comparison, one which is very good: https://pluralistic.net/2020/08/05/behavioral-v-contextual/#contextual-ads (applied to the media, but the general thread is relevant)
Do you have topics that are censored? I searched for my reddit post “what I’ve learnt from the mantis aliens”, and it does not show up in your results. Neither at google’s. But it does on other search engines. The ufo/alien stuff are censored in most search engines, while there isn’t a reason to be. That is how I judge search engines. And Mojeek doesn’t give me the results I asked for.
Reddit doesn’t allow us to crawl: https://www.reddit.com/robots.txt
Is that legally binding? What happens of they catch you, ban your IPs then you’re in the same situation as now. Literally no reason to not do it IMO.
IP already hits a wall, also better to not get a reputation as a bad bot, it’s taken a while to get known for being friendly and respecting rules, to us you should follow robots
I seem to recall creative ways to index things without robots, e.g. browser addon that users opt into to send pages and such, essentially crowdsourcing the indexing. Anyways good to see you’re taking the high road!
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which language are we talking?
Mojeek reminds me of early Google results which only searches title and inurl I like it
You can use Mojeek with SearXNvm with nothing enabled but Mojeek returned no results, I wonders why is that?I could be wrong but didn’t Mojeek also index results from Google and Bing?I’m wrong they index their own results, I mean Qwant is a search engine built in EU and they index their own resultsqwant is bing, mainly
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not sure what’s happening there for you, speed is one of the things which people frequently say we do well for
Not at all for me
Let me tell you about waiting for AskJeeves to load up in the 90s.
Web_crawler_ indeed
Aren’t all search queries available to whoever hosts an instance? In my eyes this is much worse to privacy and a much bigger risk unless you really know who is behind your chosen instance. I would trust some a company a bit more with safeguarding this information so it does not leak to some random guy.
I’ve always gotten the impression it was mostly intended to be self hosted. I’ve self hosted it for something like a couple years now, runs like a clock. It still strips out tracking and advertising, even if you don’t get the crowd anonymity of a public instance.
Self hosting doesn’t make sense as a privacy feature because then it’s still just you making requests to google/other SE
It’s not useless, it removes a lot of the tracking cookies and such and sponsored links loaded with telemetry. Theoretically you can also get the benefits of anonymity if you proxy through Tor or a VPN, which I originally tried to do but turns out Google at least blocks requests from Tor and at least the VPN endpoint I have and probably most of them. Google or whatever upstream SE can still track you by IP when you self host, but its tracking is going to much less without the extra telemetry cookies and tracking code it gets when you use Google results directly.
But yes, practically you either have to trust the instance you’re using to some extent or give up some of the anonymity. I opted to self host and would recommend the same over using a public instance if you can, personally. And if privacy is your biggest concern, only use upstream search providers that are (or rather, claim to be) more privacy respecting like DDG or Qwant. My main use case is primarily as a better frontend to search without junk sponsored results and privacy is more of a secondary benefit.
FWIW, they have a pretty detailed discussion on why they recommend self-hosting here.
As someone who hosts an instance, news to me lol
Edit: Developer says this can’t be done currently? Reddit comment
Of course it can be done, check your web server logs.
If you are using GET requests to send search queries to searxng, what you searched for will show up in the logs as
2024-10-31 123.321.0.100 /?query=kinky+furry+picturesIf you use POST requests the server admin can also easily enable logging those.
People hosting searxng can absolutely see what you searched for, along with your IP address, user agent string etc.
Well my instance’s logs are sent to null for this reason already, but thank you for the info!
Thanks for clarification and great that this is not included in project, but couldn’t someone change the server side code and somehow see more info that goes through?
I know there is that HTML check in https://searx.space/ to see if search interface code is not heavily modified, but on server side anything could go on.
If requests are encrypted in a way that searxng does not see contents then it probably is not trivial to do, but there always is a possibility something clever could be done.
It doesn’t bother me one bit of you know my search history. You’ll learn I search a word to see if I know your to spell it properly and that I DIY a lot of stuff lol
Billions of Chinese also aren’t bothered that they live under surveillance, but it isn’t right.
Good thing it only happens to the Chinese…
Companies are definitely selling your data. Use a VPN.
A VPN will not save you, they are easily worse for privacy in terms of user tracking. It centralises your entire web traffic in a single place for the VPN provider to track (and potentially sell).
You either trust the ISP or a VPN. Its a tool not a blanket of protection. Opsec and knowing how to move is most important.
But you pay more for what is essentially the same with a VPN. You have to buy a VPN subscription on top of your internet subscription, get less speed because your internet traffic is being routed through a different country and get no benefit to privacy. The only use case for a VPN is when you have to bypass georestrictions.
btw
Man, i wish i had the same experiencr
The couple of times I tried it out, the search results where barely accurate
Try kagi. It’s paid at $5/mo., but you get 300 searches to try it out.
Been rocking self-hosted Searxng for the last 3 weeks now as my default search engine; it’s as good or better than DDG and certainly better than Google. Results I need are usually within the first three items, no extraneous shit.
I thought I’d just try it out, but it’s staying. The ability to tune the background engines is awesome. My search history is private (though I wasn’t that worried about DDG, there was no way in fuck I was using Kagi) since it’s running it’s searches via a VPN and returning me results locally.
Why wouldn’t you use Kagi?
Because I don’t want a direct link to payment information and my search history stored and sold later.
it’s as good or better than
It’s only as good as the search engines you select. Which ones have you selected?
Defaults are working fine, I might have added one or two.
What does it default to? Google+bing+DDG?
Keep in mind that to protect your privacy you should also share your instance with others. All the searches are still linked to an IP which can be abused as well.
Yes, that’s the purpose of the VPN. It’s out there mixed in with everyone else that’s using that exit node.
Honestly, it’s not too much of a concern to me, I’m not doing anything illegal or naughty, it’s just making sure I’m not part of the dataset.
Yep, a VPN is a good solution.
How does it work self hosting? Is it querying other search engines or just maintaining a database on your server?
Its all calls to other engines, that you can choose and tune. So its making those calls and filtering out shit like AI results, and then ranking it to return back to you. Seems to do a good job.
It’s a meta search engine: it aggregates results from multiple sources for your search query. So yes, it queries other search engines.
I’d use it if its public instances didn’t get rate-limited so often
How is it compared to DDG?
I never use DDG before, but I think it’s pretty similar since DDG and SearX index their results from Bing (SearX and also index from Google, qwant… if you enable them), but SearX is decentralized and open source but DDG at core is not, you also have to trust DDG with your info (who know? maybe they lie about their privacy policy but I hope not)
In terms of search results, ddg sometimes will find very specific searches better and has more bells and whistles. I still prefer SearXNG, and have been using my instance almost exclusively since setting it up.
a lot more search results, but they are ordered in a very weird way. it lists subdomains first, then the main domain
it’s like using google from 2000’s; thanks for sharing
If you set it as your default search in chrome or such, it will convert the Google search bar in Android to a SearXNG search bar. I started using it a little while back. Firefox never did well for me on Android (I’m sure it’s anecdotal)
If you are on a desktop, you can run it locally, you are much less likely to be rate limited, but this comes at cost of your ip being still visible to google or whatever search engine you choose to scrape from
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It’s your queries + your IP combined with the rest of the data the net collects from you that identifies you.
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I completely agree with you, and what i wrote was in haste, essentially, what i wanted to say, was that an individual running searxng does not provide the anonymity benefits you would get by using some public instance, but it it still better because you are not directly using google or whatever website, and now searxng kinda acts like a browser between you and them, which does limited conversation - there aren’t any js based fingerprinting. I also use searxng locally, i cant stand the constant rate limiting of public servers, or sometimes only a few engines are blocked, and variation in result quality is unacceptable to me. I just wanted to add that bit for transparency,
i get a lot of simpsons pictures in the image results for some rsn
Some raisin
Some resin
same here but with hentai on searx.be
I checked it out, but most of the public instances I looked at use google + bing. I think I only came across one that used Mojeek, but they deranked it so google results were still at the top.
Yeah you can customize them – if you never clear your cookies.
Pretty much need to self-host it to customize it.
if you never clear your cookies.
They allow you to use a link instead for saving settings, which can also be used to set as your default search engine
I’m not seeing that option anywhere. Nor does it allow me to change the “weight”. I found a github discussion saying it should show up after you save the settings, but I tried that on two instances and didn’t get any unique URL.
Ah, I found it under the “cookies” tab. Needs to be more obvious IMO.
It’s ok at best, when it works. When it runs out of API hits for the day at noon, you need to use something like https://searx.neocities.org/ and retype your search multiple times until you manage to hit an instance that can actually perform a search.
Also, no suggestions.
Self host it, it’s nothing to set up.
Doesn’t that defeat the only benefit - anonymity?
Not if it runs the queries it sends out via a VPN where it mingles with thousands of other requests. An API call doesn’t have the disadvantages of browser fingerprinting, cookies, etc that are used to build a background of a user browsing to your search engine and track their searches. Also, there is no feedback to the search engine about which result you choose to use. If you allow outside users, it would further muddy the waters.
Ideally, you’d have it run random searches when not being used to further obfuscate the source.
It strips the tracking data to and from the engines, so if you tuck it behind a vpn, GG.
I use this daily and just wanted to highlight two downsides: 1 some instances are quite slow in response 2 some instances are non English, so everything except search results might be unreadable unless you know that language
The second one has been happening less frequently recently though, not sure if there are just more English instances or some other reason behind it.
Kagi works great for me. 100% worth it, best engine I’ve tried.
Edit: If you are curious about their privacy policy https://kagi.com/privacy.
From what i understand, you need an account to use that, dosn’t seem very private.
That’s a fair point. The whole point of needing an account and paying for the service is that personal data plays no role in their business model. This requieres trust from their users but I’m willing to do so as fuck google (obv) and ddg and other alternatives I’ve tried give noticeable worse results…
5 dollars for 300 searches per month? Dafuk? And to top it up, need an actual account with email. Gets acquired in a couple of years, and all the data they gather on you gets sold. You’d be better off staying with Google.
Ok I need to put my tinfoil hat on for a moment but I think there is some viral marketing going on for it on Lemmy. The frequency I see it recommended or mentioned and the unorganic way it is brought up gives me advert vibes.
It’s just a really good product. I search for something and get the results I’m looking for. You don’t have to like it, but I like the product enough that I would take the time to recommend that others give it a go too.
It could be a good product. I neither hate it nor like it.
I personally know someone in advertisement and viral marketing is more widespread than I think people realize. That is why I would like people to be sceptical about stuff that gets recommended with this kind of frequency (and IMHO with text in a tone that I’ve read in actual viral marketing campaigns) especially if the product is commercial.
This method of advertising is used because it works and as you can see by the backlash here merely suggesting that it could be an ad and asking people to be sceptical/cautious is taken as breaking a social taboo.
Shit. There’s no follow button in Lemmy. Finally someone that brings up a good point.
Lol as if that tiny company could afford that kind of stuff. Also what do you mean unorganic as the thread in question is talking about search engines? Ironically, I commented the kagi suggestion cause I barely never see it mentioned in these threads and I genuinely find it super cool and I’d like more people to try it… guess you can’t give suggestions anymore?
My intention is not to personally attack you just to get that out of the way. That is why I prefaced my statement with the tinfoil hat part.
I don’t know if the company can afford that. I did not look into it enough but I know that viral marketing is not a very expensive marketing strategy and I hate it.
I can speak only on my experience here on Lemmy where I hear it mentioned with a rather high frequency and in ways that suggest to me that it could be an advert.
I will not apologize for being sceptical when it comes to commercial product recommendations and I suggest everybody do the same as viral marketing is extremely widespread in the modern net.
Yeal I get it, I find it hard to rely on online recommendations too. But still, I find it funny that I personally haven’t seen any kagi comment and you have seen enough already to grow skeptical. Because of that, and because I have enjoyed using it, I wanted to share it. Could have gone deeper on the reasons I like it but it would sound more forced/advertisy imo (e.g. “For only xyz per month you get 100% private reliable results with xyz features. I have used it for xyz months and it has never failed” etc).
Still kinda annoying to get implied to be a bot/paid rando when sharing something cool but that’s the web
Edit: I took a second looks to other comments and I can see that kagi is indeed mentioned quite a bit so nvm that. I’m glad to hear more people are starting to use it now :)
The family plan (w/ unlimited searches) is better value. Also the whole point of charging upfront is that personal data plays no role on its business model. Ofc there’s still the risk of it being acquired but the userbase (even if small atm) is still growing and (allegedly) is now profitable.
It’s pretty nice. The REST API for running searches makes running SearxNG worth it, if nothing else.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that?
Did anyone else not know Lycos was still around? Lycos is still around. Seems not that bad. No AI stuff.
