I mean…my guy…it’s 1% as bad here as it is in Gaza. It would not be just fine. Just fine for you maybe.
They have to change. And It’s not some massive crazy line in the sand to not vote for people who actively support genocide. That’s like…the lowest possible bar to clear.
You do understand that Gaza is much worse off as well, right?
Like, it’s an absolute shitshow-dumpster-fire everywhere now. Not voting Harris was just insanity.
Like, I agree Gaza is and was a preventable tragedy in motion, and that Democrats messed up by not standing up for them. Agreed there. That said . . . We are all so fucked now, in part because of that talking point. Economically, Domestically, Militarily, Environmentally, Socially fucked - because people didn’t vote Democratic.
Y’know who changes the Democrats? Democrats. When there aren’t any in office they’re harder to change, right?
Gaza is not worse off than if the democrats changed, because if the democrats changed they’d win, as you point out yourself. And then things would be better for Gaza. I know you’re saying it’s worse off under Republicans than under Democrats…I’m skeptical it would be any different, but whatever, sure, maybe it’s 10% worse, idk. None of my business. I’m not voting for 10% less demonic when they could just stop being demons instead.
We’re not fucked because we didn’t vote for the Democrats, we’re fucked because the Democrats decided that continuing to support a genocide was more important than winning. No one should be asked to hold their nose that hard. Getting killed by Nazis would be better than actively helping and legitimizing the diet-nazis. The domestic horror is a rounding error. Feel free to throw in other points if you want too, medicare for all, meaningful environmental regulation, or whatever you want, maybe those would have been enough to make a difference, but I think Palestine is a pretty goddamn huge one. The point is they were not trying to be minimally palatable. I’m sure you know, but in case you didn’t, 2020 biden would have beaten 2024 trump…trump didn’t win (he did worse than he did in 2020), the democrats lost hard.
The party doesn’t cease to exist when it’s not in power; they don’t need to be in office to change. In fact, I’d say when they’re in office they’re impossible to change…why change when they’re winning? The party platform could say “Israel is conducting a genocide in Palestine and if you vote for us we’ll put a stop to US support for it.” They could announce that first thing in the morning if they gave a shit. I’d be banging on doors for them tomorrow afternoon, and I don’t think that’s an unusual position. Since they don’t give a shit about the genocide they have to carefully weigh whether it’s worthwhile, from the perspective of electoral success, to alienate zionists in order to win the support of people who do give a shit. Fine, I can’t control that. But I can control whether I vote for them or not; whether they actually have to consider that or not. Let them decide, but don’t look at me askance for not wanting to vote for more support for genocide.
If you voted for Harris, she was explicit, you were voting for continued support for genocide in Palestine. Maybe you can hold your nose and say “relative to trump, some slight reduction in horror there and significant reduction in horror here is enough for me to vote for continued horror there,” good for you, I 'aint judging, I don’t care. I can’t do that.
Well I’m not going to change your mind but I hope the three people who scroll by will consider trying to unfuck us all in the midterms in eight months.
But the whole point of your post is that they’ll win if people turn up for them. They have the power to decide whether people will vote to unfuck us in the midterms. I’m saying people (at least people like me) will not turn up to vote for genocide. All they have to do is say “we’re no longer going to provide weapons to Israel” and I’ll be there. I’ll spend my saturdays banging on doors. I’ll spend my evenings making calls for candidates. I’ve done it before…and I’d love to do it again. It’s fun and exciting and fulfilling. But not for this party as it is. And again, they know that, they’re suppressing their postmortem report for that reason. Maybe folks like me don’t matter, but obviously I think we do, and so do you if you’re making a post like this trying to convince us to show up despite our principles.
I know you’re trying to disengage and I’m sorry. I can’t help myself; this is a smear that I can’t just bear without responding to it.
Is voting for a democrat the only way to fight republicans? News to me!
So like…I help organize folks supporting workers, resisting cops, protesting, etc. That doesn’t count? It’d be better if I just sat on my ass and did all my fighting in the ballot box every two years?
Look, would it make you feel better if I said I’d be conflicted if I lived in a swing state? That I’m open to the idea that I might think differently if my choice not to vote actually mattered to the result of the election, rather than merely a signal to the democrats to do better?
Who said anything about not fighting republicans? I’m all for fighting republicans.
Of course they are still a thing, and the democrats are significantly better on those issues than the republicans are (still not great, but significantly better). Palestine is an issue the democrats are not significantly better on and it’s significantly more dire and imminent. I don’t think any indigenous or black people would disagree with that; it matters a lot of course, but there are at least 75,000 dead palestinians in the last few years. So…yes it matters? Yes we should fight the republicans? No I don’t think we should accept the slaughter of Palestinians in exchange for progress on that?
You have to realize that this kind of question just makes people go straight to “death to America”, not “we have to vote for a more polite team to continue America’s long and bipartisan tradition of genocide, slavery, and imperialism”, right? Your framing is likely making people less likely to vote if that’s what you care about.
I mean…my guy…it’s 1% as bad here as it is in Gaza. It would not be just fine. Just fine for you maybe.
They have to change. And It’s not some massive crazy line in the sand to not vote for people who actively support genocide. That’s like…the lowest possible bar to clear.
You do understand that Gaza is much worse off as well, right?
Like, it’s an absolute shitshow-dumpster-fire everywhere now. Not voting Harris was just insanity.
Like, I agree Gaza is and was a preventable tragedy in motion, and that Democrats messed up by not standing up for them. Agreed there. That said . . . We are all so fucked now, in part because of that talking point. Economically, Domestically, Militarily, Environmentally, Socially fucked - because people didn’t vote Democratic.
Y’know who changes the Democrats? Democrats. When there aren’t any in office they’re harder to change, right?
Gaza is not worse off than if the democrats changed, because if the democrats changed they’d win, as you point out yourself. And then things would be better for Gaza. I know you’re saying it’s worse off under Republicans than under Democrats…I’m skeptical it would be any different, but whatever, sure, maybe it’s 10% worse, idk. None of my business. I’m not voting for 10% less demonic when they could just stop being demons instead.
We’re not fucked because we didn’t vote for the Democrats, we’re fucked because the Democrats decided that continuing to support a genocide was more important than winning. No one should be asked to hold their nose that hard. Getting killed by Nazis would be better than actively helping and legitimizing the diet-nazis. The domestic horror is a rounding error. Feel free to throw in other points if you want too, medicare for all, meaningful environmental regulation, or whatever you want, maybe those would have been enough to make a difference, but I think Palestine is a pretty goddamn huge one. The point is they were not trying to be minimally palatable. I’m sure you know, but in case you didn’t, 2020 biden would have beaten 2024 trump…trump didn’t win (he did worse than he did in 2020), the democrats lost hard.
The party doesn’t cease to exist when it’s not in power; they don’t need to be in office to change. In fact, I’d say when they’re in office they’re impossible to change…why change when they’re winning? The party platform could say “Israel is conducting a genocide in Palestine and if you vote for us we’ll put a stop to US support for it.” They could announce that first thing in the morning if they gave a shit. I’d be banging on doors for them tomorrow afternoon, and I don’t think that’s an unusual position. Since they don’t give a shit about the genocide they have to carefully weigh whether it’s worthwhile, from the perspective of electoral success, to alienate zionists in order to win the support of people who do give a shit. Fine, I can’t control that. But I can control whether I vote for them or not; whether they actually have to consider that or not. Let them decide, but don’t look at me askance for not wanting to vote for more support for genocide.
If you voted for Harris, she was explicit, you were voting for continued support for genocide in Palestine. Maybe you can hold your nose and say “relative to trump, some slight reduction in horror there and significant reduction in horror here is enough for me to vote for continued horror there,” good for you, I 'aint judging, I don’t care. I can’t do that.
Well I’m not going to change your mind but I hope the three people who scroll by will consider trying to unfuck us all in the midterms in eight months.
I hope the democrats consider trying to unfuck us; they’ve got all the power to make that happen.
Well, they don’t, very specifically. They don’t have either chamber, the white house or a majority of SCOTUS.
That’s - that’s what the voting for them would do.
They have it within their power to listen to their base and stop supporting genocide. You consider that unthinkable.
But the whole point of your post is that they’ll win if people turn up for them. They have the power to decide whether people will vote to unfuck us in the midterms. I’m saying people (at least people like me) will not turn up to vote for genocide. All they have to do is say “we’re no longer going to provide weapons to Israel” and I’ll be there. I’ll spend my saturdays banging on doors. I’ll spend my evenings making calls for candidates. I’ve done it before…and I’d love to do it again. It’s fun and exciting and fulfilling. But not for this party as it is. And again, they know that, they’re suppressing their postmortem report for that reason. Maybe folks like me don’t matter, but obviously I think we do, and so do you if you’re making a post like this trying to convince us to show up despite our principles.
I know you’re trying to disengage and I’m sorry. I can’t help myself; this is a smear that I can’t just bear without responding to it.
Well your choices are to fight (vote Democratic) or not fight (not vote / not vote Democratic).
Sounds like you’re not going to fight and the reason is Palestine. That’s up to you, of course.
Is voting for a democrat the only way to fight republicans? News to me!
So like…I help organize folks supporting workers, resisting cops, protesting, etc. That doesn’t count? It’d be better if I just sat on my ass and did all my fighting in the ballot box every two years?
Look, would it make you feel better if I said I’d be conflicted if I lived in a swing state? That I’m open to the idea that I might think differently if my choice not to vote actually mattered to the result of the election, rather than merely a signal to the democrats to do better?
Do you support the genocide of Native Americans or African Americans? Because that’s still A Thing and not fighting the republicans furthers it.
Who said anything about not fighting republicans? I’m all for fighting republicans.
Of course they are still a thing, and the democrats are significantly better on those issues than the republicans are (still not great, but significantly better). Palestine is an issue the democrats are not significantly better on and it’s significantly more dire and imminent. I don’t think any indigenous or black people would disagree with that; it matters a lot of course, but there are at least 75,000 dead palestinians in the last few years. So…yes it matters? Yes we should fight the republicans? No I don’t think we should accept the slaughter of Palestinians in exchange for progress on that?
You have to realize that this kind of question just makes people go straight to “death to America”, not “we have to vote for a more polite team to continue America’s long and bipartisan tradition of genocide, slavery, and imperialism”, right? Your framing is likely making people less likely to vote if that’s what you care about.