I’d love to be more than a single issue voter, but yeah I think that issue is completely overriding. I guess i’m a single-issue vote-withholder. And again, I’m not judging anyone who thinks otherwise, or are single-issue voters for the environment or whatever. I just object to being told I’m the problem when I’m not the one arming a genocide.
e: on reflection I’m not really sure that’s right, though, in that if the republicans cut aid to nothing and the democrats cut aid to a thousand dollars, I wouldn’t go vote for the republicans. It’s not that it can’t be overridden inherently or something…its about the scale. The scale is what makes it so overriding.
Well the opposite happened so - I mean republicans cut more than funding, they closed up the entire agency, leaving millions of people around the world without food and medicine, and the Democrats would have continued sending food and medicine. That’s scale.
And just to reiterate the genocide didn’t stop, and trump has sold the Palestinians down the river for thirty pieces if silver and a statue of himself plus the naming rights. So how did that even help? There’s no way Harris would have even come close to that. Much less start a War for our buddy Bibi and let Pooty-poot continue his own genocide.
It just makes zero sense to not try and make it better. Letting trump win - even for the ethical reasons stated - is worse.
Sorry, to be clear, in my edit I meant if both sides cut US military aid to Israel, not aid in general. And yeah cutting off USAID is horrifying. I don’t think the scale is the same as the genocide in palestine (it’s a lot less money, and I think that money spent buying bombs is probably more effective at killing than money buying aid is at saving lives, but I may be wrong about that), but no doubt that’s one major difference. There are lots of differences, and I don’t deny they matter. I just deny they matter as much as the agreement between the parties to help israel exterminate Palestinians.
I’m also not convinced Harris wouldn’t have us invading Iran all the same; she was extremely hawkish on Iran. Just go look at what she was saying in 2024.
I also don’t see any reason to think Palestinians would have been better off under Harris. Biden gave way more to Israel than Trump has (again, granted, he had more time to do so…i just don’t see any reason to think it would ever go down). Maybe bibi and putin “feel empowered,” and we’re just gonna vibes that into assuming it’s actually worse? IDK vibes don’t make guns go bang, bullets do, and it’s the bullets that I think are the same.
And as for how it helped; it hasn’t yet. If the democrats announce that they’re changing course on Palestine, then win, then follow through I’ll feel like it’s made all the difference in the world. I’m not holding my breath, but that’s how it’ll help. As I said, i don’ think voting for the democrats wouldn’t have helped either, so I’d rather try for the option that has a chance.
It says somewhere between 5-10x the amount of lives lost. Obviously there are differences. But sheer number of deaths, the USAID cuts are way worse.
I’m also not convinced Harris wouldn’t have us invading Iran all the same; she was extremely hawkish on Iran. Just go look at what she was saying in 2024.
No. Obama worked hard to get a treaty that trump destroyed immediately. She would try to get back on that track. And, point of order, she’s not a goddamned idiot like our demented rapist, or surrounded by sycophantic nazis.
I also don’t see any reason to think Palestinians would have been better off under Harris. Biden gave way more to Israel than Trump has
I disagree entirely, but it’s a big discussion. The quick points are Biden’s private disagreements with Bibi and attempts to prevent arms sales that the republicans intentionally overrode; and the demented rapist’s carte blanche for Bibi and Pooty-poot. Coagulating into his owning “beautiful beachfront resort property”. It’s just worlds away from competent, adult foreign policy. And I’m sorry that’s not staggeringly clear.
As I said, i don’ think voting for the democrats wouldn’t have helped either, so I’d rather try for the option that has a chance.
I mean, I agree with the option that has a chance part. I just disagree entirely on which had the chance.
Well you’ve found the way to my cold heart. Given those US aid stats, I’m with you, that dwarfs even the genocide of palestinians. And how fucked is that? I’ll need to sit with that for a while…the democrats are clear they want to restore it (or were last year anyway), so that’s a very convincing argument to hold my nose and support the genocide of palestinians? Fuck. Well fuck. I don’t even like USAID because they so frequently use it to smuggle guns into countries they’re attempting to coup. This is a very speculative abstract metric, but if it’s even close to a fair approximation it’s pretty convincing.
I don’t think Harris is an idiot, but I don’t think you’d have to be…like…wars are very good for american arms manufacturers. I’m sure it wouldn’t happen like this, but I she was certainly not less hawkish on Iran than Trump was. Was that to try to win over some of the two-dozen or so american voters who fall into the infinitesimally small crack between the republicans and the democrats? I guess maybe, but I think it’s more likely she just actually was hawkish on Iran.
I’m just not convinced private disagreements and qualms have anything to do with it. We have agreements in place to provide military aid to Israel, and the democrats would follow through on those “obligations” to arm a genocide. Trump 1 did not make a significant increase over Obama, but Biden made a significant increase over Trump 1. Trump 2 isn’t even close to catching up. I agree the private disagreements and qualms are nicer than trump’s jeering nastiness, but that difference in nastiness is not worth a single death, so I’m not really interested in saying ‘that’s what makes it worse.’
I don’t even like USAID because they so frequently use it to smuggle guns
I have heard that too and that needs to be stopped wherever it may have been the case. It’s not perfect.
I guess maybe, but I think it’s more likely she just actually was hawkish on Iran.
I think Iran is a bugaboo that candidates have to posture on. They said the same about Hilary. I think saying, in a campaign speech, “I’m tough on Iran” is a world away from actually fucking up the way trump is doing this very minute.
And as for trump and Gaza have you seen this? That he shared and is proud of? Harris would not have had anything to do with that, i think it’s safe to say.
IDK, you’ve obviously got a lot more faith in them than I do. Obama didn’t even say “I’m gonna drone strike anyone I want anywhere in the world, sovereignty be damned,” but he did it. Biden and hillary both voted to invade Iraq. So when Democrats say “I’ll do anything necessary to stop Iran” I don’t put anything past them.
And yeah, that’s the gross behavior I’m talking about. Like…that video is gross, but it’s less bad than any of the many thousands of bombs we’ve provided. I don’t think the nastiness and the policy are related to each other.
I’m not saying I’m not frequently disappointed in them - but demanding perfection immediately seems to work even less well.
And as for “stopping Iran” i know there’s a bunch of plans that don’t involve random school bombings, which just speaks to the derangement and incompetence of the people who supposedly won the election. We would have had better than that. By a lot. The world would have had better.
I’m really not demanding perfection. Like look I’d love to see all kinds of stuff I think are no-brainers, good policy, whatever. If the Democrats tomorrow said “no more arms to Israel” I’d still have a million and one complaints…no question they’re not perfect. That’s not perfection that’s like…minimal human decency. They can keep funding ICE keep carrying out regime change wars keep fucking everyone over on healthcare and the environment and labor rights and all that. But arming israel? No; come on. That’s not “demanding perfection”
I’d love to be more than a single issue voter, but yeah I think that issue is completely overriding. I guess i’m a single-issue vote-withholder. And again, I’m not judging anyone who thinks otherwise, or are single-issue voters for the environment or whatever. I just object to being told I’m the problem when I’m not the one arming a genocide.
e: on reflection I’m not really sure that’s right, though, in that if the republicans cut aid to nothing and the democrats cut aid to a thousand dollars, I wouldn’t go vote for the republicans. It’s not that it can’t be overridden inherently or something…its about the scale. The scale is what makes it so overriding.
Well the opposite happened so - I mean republicans cut more than funding, they closed up the entire agency, leaving millions of people around the world without food and medicine, and the Democrats would have continued sending food and medicine. That’s scale.
And just to reiterate the genocide didn’t stop, and trump has sold the Palestinians down the river for thirty pieces if silver and a statue of himself plus the naming rights. So how did that even help? There’s no way Harris would have even come close to that. Much less start a War for our buddy Bibi and let Pooty-poot continue his own genocide.
It just makes zero sense to not try and make it better. Letting trump win - even for the ethical reasons stated - is worse.
Sorry, to be clear, in my edit I meant if both sides cut US military aid to Israel, not aid in general. And yeah cutting off USAID is horrifying. I don’t think the scale is the same as the genocide in palestine (it’s a lot less money, and I think that money spent buying bombs is probably more effective at killing than money buying aid is at saving lives, but I may be wrong about that), but no doubt that’s one major difference. There are lots of differences, and I don’t deny they matter. I just deny they matter as much as the agreement between the parties to help israel exterminate Palestinians.
I’m also not convinced Harris wouldn’t have us invading Iran all the same; she was extremely hawkish on Iran. Just go look at what she was saying in 2024.
I also don’t see any reason to think Palestinians would have been better off under Harris. Biden gave way more to Israel than Trump has (again, granted, he had more time to do so…i just don’t see any reason to think it would ever go down). Maybe bibi and putin “feel empowered,” and we’re just gonna vibes that into assuming it’s actually worse? IDK vibes don’t make guns go bang, bullets do, and it’s the bullets that I think are the same.
And as for how it helped; it hasn’t yet. If the democrats announce that they’re changing course on Palestine, then win, then follow through I’ll feel like it’s made all the difference in the world. I’m not holding my breath, but that’s how it’ll help. As I said, i don’ think voting for the democrats wouldn’t have helped either, so I’d rather try for the option that has a chance.
You should probably read this: https://www.cgdev.org/blog/update-lives-lost-usaid-cuts
It says somewhere between 5-10x the amount of lives lost. Obviously there are differences. But sheer number of deaths, the USAID cuts are way worse.
No. Obama worked hard to get a treaty that trump destroyed immediately. She would try to get back on that track. And, point of order, she’s not a goddamned idiot like our demented rapist, or surrounded by sycophantic nazis.
I disagree entirely, but it’s a big discussion. The quick points are Biden’s private disagreements with Bibi and attempts to prevent arms sales that the republicans intentionally overrode; and the demented rapist’s carte blanche for Bibi and Pooty-poot. Coagulating into his owning “beautiful beachfront resort property”. It’s just worlds away from competent, adult foreign policy. And I’m sorry that’s not staggeringly clear.
I mean, I agree with the option that has a chance part. I just disagree entirely on which had the chance.
Well you’ve found the way to my cold heart. Given those US aid stats, I’m with you, that dwarfs even the genocide of palestinians. And how fucked is that? I’ll need to sit with that for a while…the democrats are clear they want to restore it (or were last year anyway), so that’s a very convincing argument to hold my nose and support the genocide of palestinians? Fuck. Well fuck. I don’t even like USAID because they so frequently use it to smuggle guns into countries they’re attempting to coup. This is a very speculative abstract metric, but if it’s even close to a fair approximation it’s pretty convincing.
I don’t think Harris is an idiot, but I don’t think you’d have to be…like…wars are very good for american arms manufacturers. I’m sure it wouldn’t happen like this, but I she was certainly not less hawkish on Iran than Trump was. Was that to try to win over some of the two-dozen or so american voters who fall into the infinitesimally small crack between the republicans and the democrats? I guess maybe, but I think it’s more likely she just actually was hawkish on Iran.
I’m just not convinced private disagreements and qualms have anything to do with it. We have agreements in place to provide military aid to Israel, and the democrats would follow through on those “obligations” to arm a genocide. Trump 1 did not make a significant increase over Obama, but Biden made a significant increase over Trump 1. Trump 2 isn’t even close to catching up. I agree the private disagreements and qualms are nicer than trump’s jeering nastiness, but that difference in nastiness is not worth a single death, so I’m not really interested in saying ‘that’s what makes it worse.’
I have heard that too and that needs to be stopped wherever it may have been the case. It’s not perfect.
I think Iran is a bugaboo that candidates have to posture on. They said the same about Hilary. I think saying, in a campaign speech, “I’m tough on Iran” is a world away from actually fucking up the way trump is doing this very minute.
And as for trump and Gaza have you seen this? That he shared and is proud of? Harris would not have had anything to do with that, i think it’s safe to say.
IDK, you’ve obviously got a lot more faith in them than I do. Obama didn’t even say “I’m gonna drone strike anyone I want anywhere in the world, sovereignty be damned,” but he did it. Biden and hillary both voted to invade Iraq. So when Democrats say “I’ll do anything necessary to stop Iran” I don’t put anything past them.
And yeah, that’s the gross behavior I’m talking about. Like…that video is gross, but it’s less bad than any of the many thousands of bombs we’ve provided. I don’t think the nastiness and the policy are related to each other.
I’m not saying I’m not frequently disappointed in them - but demanding perfection immediately seems to work even less well.
And as for “stopping Iran” i know there’s a bunch of plans that don’t involve random school bombings, which just speaks to the derangement and incompetence of the people who supposedly won the election. We would have had better than that. By a lot. The world would have had better.
I’m really not demanding perfection. Like look I’d love to see all kinds of stuff I think are no-brainers, good policy, whatever. If the Democrats tomorrow said “no more arms to Israel” I’d still have a million and one complaints…no question they’re not perfect. That’s not perfection that’s like…minimal human decency. They can keep funding ICE keep carrying out regime change wars keep fucking everyone over on healthcare and the environment and labor rights and all that. But arming israel? No; come on. That’s not “demanding perfection”