We’re going to have a world war against the USA and Israel. It might not be today, tomorrow or even in a few years… but I feel like it’s inevitable. They are rogue terrorist states and are responsible some of the most heinous war crimes in recorded history. They need to be stopped.
This is a gross generalization. It’s like aliens looking down on earth and saying “we really have to do something about these humans.”
Like, sure. We, as a species, might have earned that… But, is it all humans?
The right shift in power across nations could solve this. It starts with people acknowledging that the real issue is rogue governments. Right now in the United States, our government is rogue.
Random people born in Russia don’t want to kill Ukrainians any more than every American wants to kill random people in the Middle East. Our humanity is important, and where you’re born and live doesn’t dictate your loyalty to empowered dictators.
The movement that needs to happen is one where the people rise up in all nations, and unite. It starts with language. America doesn’t need to be destroyed any more than Russia, but their governments require radical changes.
Doesnt work that way. Evil is not a country. You can attack it and try to destroy it, and if you succeed, another country will take its place.
But yeah, its worth doing anyway since it gives temporary relief. Otherwise the logic would be to not try to stop oppressive countries, and that obviously doesnt work either.
What this place needs is a big spiritual upgrade of humans, so they would stop becoming evil just for money and power.
Maybe I’m ignorant but if every English speaking nation stood together and told the US that they were being evil and doing wrong, and that they’d no longer join in with their invasions, the US would probably stand down.
This might have been the case under sane-but-horrible leaders like George W. Bush, Mike Pence, and the last Democrats, but I think this outcome is improbable as 1) that international united refusal didn’t happen when George W. Bush waged war over lies in the Middle East; 2) This administration is composed of hyped-up christo-fascists and their sycophants, and is goaded by oligarchs who want the destruction of the USA so they can buy up what remains.
No way Europe meaningfully stands up to Uncle Sam, and heinous Israeli-American war crimes are nothing new. Trump still hasn’t actually outdone the Iraq war, for example.
They won’t because Europe is always on the loosing side and getting in any war is bad, against the us, let’s be honest, it would be a disaster. Europe have to protect their people too.
The war that will change the world will be US x China. China is a military superpower and it is surpassing the US, or at least matching them, little by little.
That’s the scary part for me. they will end the world
They won’t because Europe is always on the loosing side and getting in any war is bad, against the us, let’s be honest, it would be a disaster.
I meant diplomatically and economically, not necessarily militarily. There are cards that can be played without getting into a hot (or even cold) war with the US; (most) European countries just don’t use them because A: Their elites profit from US war crimes too, and B: Most of them are happy being US vassal states.
Oh wow, yeah if they’re at least undocumented it’s all good.
Just because Trump is basically the worst possible example of a human being there can be, I’m not gonna believe for a second that any other ruling politicians or oligarchs are saints. Just that those others have better control over the media, which Trump wants to achieve as well.
You can’t compare China, who hasn’t waged a single war in 50 years, to a genocidal entity like “Israel” that is being constantly aided by the US empire and defended by the western propaganda machine.
And regarding Xinjiang, you may need to look at the facts before throwing terms like “ethnic cleansing.”
EDIT: I have to add how despicable and of ill nature it is to shift the conversation away from the issue at hand, i.e. the war crimes of the imperialist machine, and towards discursive topics.
China is now arguably the fifth largest supplier of arms supplying weapons and ammo to conflict regions. China is well known for its forced cultural assimilation and they have never stopped. Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
I see you cherry picked the years because between the cultural revolution and the subsequent famine China lost well over 50 millions citizens.
We know the facts, the labor camps, the dramatic drop in birth rates, the altering of mosques to look more Chinese. Forced cultural assimilation is a genocidal act when the US did it to the Native Americans. China is no different.
Why did the Chinese lose so many citizens fighting fascist just to adopt capitalism and produce more billionaires than the US this and last year while also being an obvious oligarchy. Why did all these innocents need to die just for China to become fascist themselves?
If the US disappeared tomorrow Chiva would happily fill its spot as a the number one human rights abuser with their garbage partners Russia and North Korea.
Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
Opening in the sense that there’s been over a decade of accusations and still no actual evidence of even a single death, or indeed any physical evidence at all, with the excuse that it’s all going on in secret. So, the opposite of open.
Israel couldn’t hide genocide in Gaza despite having it completely locked down and the tacit support of the media, but apparently China is doing it on an even bigger scale in a place people can freely travel to.
I am absolutely not saying that what China has done is anything close to Israel and the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians. Instead it is very similar to the genocide the US did with Puerto Rico.
Why did the Chinese lose so many citizens fighting fascist just to adopt capitalism and produce more billionaires than the US this and last year while also being an obvious oligarchy. Why did all these innocents need to die just for China to become fascist themselves?
Capitalism and socialism are not some clear cut systems or categories that can be merely “adopted.” They are modes of production that are dictated by the material and social relations of production in a given space at a given time. For instance, the transition from feudalism to capitalism did not occur neither swiftly, nor neatly nor universally; rather, capitalist bubbles existed at the epitome of feudal rule and did not expand until the favourable material circumstances emerged — abrupt demographic changes in the 14th century, colonialist ventures by private companies in American continent, and so forth. And even after capitalism became the dominant mode of production, feudalist relations of production still existed at the peripheries.
This is exactly what socialism looks like, a transitional stage that will bring forth a post-capitalist society once the international contradictions (Chinese millionaires) as well as external (US imperialist encroachment) are extinguished. Some policies may succeed, while others may fail and become lessons for future policymaking.
But to call this anything close to fascism is treason to the working classes of the Global South.
Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
Just ask yourself a simple yet important question: what does the PRC stand to gain from indiscriminately persecuting its own citizens and making them suffer aimlessly?
You can travel right now to Xinjiang and visit all of its towns and cities freely with total access and ease (as many tourists do every year), and you would see people openly speaking Uyghur, rituals and local events practiced publicly, and mosques operating normally. If you’re adamant on believing what some white journalist from NYT or WSJ has to say instead of the locals and residents as well as tourists and independent, on-ground reporters, then this conversation should stop right here.
You don’t get more billionaires by practicing socialism. You would have to be truly naive to believe China is practicing socialism. Also, their greatest accomplishment of raising so many people out of poverty was because of capitalism not socialism.
Why does China engage in forced cultural assimilation? Because it always has throughout history. They even have a name for it, sinicization.
China has always and will always be imperialist which is why when campists call out the US for Imperialism it is so unbelievably hollow.
You can also travel to reservations in the US to see Native Americans dancing and singing. Clearly this proves the US has done nothing wrong. To be frank, your position is not supported by facts and it is naive to say the least.
The US also prosecutes their wealthy like Martin Shkreli. Does this suddenly absolve their capitalism. I know you are not joking, but it is hard to take you seriously when you hand wave the fact that China has now created more billionaires than the US for the second year in a row.
I judge a nations level of fascism by not only their wealthy inequality but a growing wealth gap. A truly socialist country would not have this issue. China continues to increase its wealth gap dramatically.
Again, you’re ignoring the fact that socialism is not a defined set of policies that gets to be uniformly applied in a vaccum. The trajectory even has historically varied from one socialist state to another. To attribute the accomplishments of the PRC to “capitalism” is inaccurate. What there is in China is a market economy that is predominated by public ownership and state-owned enterprises, which is nowhere close to capitalism.
You condemn the consequences of the early Maoist policies, and then equally condemn Dengist reforms. What’s the point of critiquing for the sake of critiquing, whem there is no constructive effort on your part to properly assess and understand the material and historical circumstances that have led to China’s development into what it is now, only being guided by emotions and a confident lack of theory. One recent book on the matter that I recommend is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics by Roland Boer.
China has always and will always be imperialist
This is ahistorical and untheoretical thinking on your part. Imperialism is an advanced form of capitalism. An imperialist state is one that has saturated its domestic markets and as a consequence seeks to expand its markets and the reproduction of private capital overseas, by all means possible and most notably by force. China simply does not possess the features of imperialism. Prolewiki has a very informative article that explains the concept.
Until now, you’ve only indiscriminately sprinkled terms like imperialism and capitalism and fascism without much thought in the process, and so we’ve reached an impasse.
As to the Xinjiang matter, your views reflect those of the western propaganda machine. I’ve already mentioned above a FAQ compiled by Dessalines (yes, Lemmy’s lead dev) which contains many articles and documents that may at the very least give a different perspective on this matter.
Btw. Israel is comitting a genocide in Gaza. Now by your logic, surely my comment must be deleted, right?
But if you are honest, you don’t give a shit about people in Gaza.
Why would you attack me by implying I have alterior motives when I simply replied to the top comment? It doesn’t mention an “imperialist machine”, it states that there will be a world war against the US & Israel.
I simply stated that I can see no “good” allied forces against the “bad” axis in this conflict as in WW2 (let’s just say that, for all its own problems, the lines were more clearly defined back then). Everyone’s kinda the baddies now.
Regarding your sources: Wow, someone has certainly been busy. I simply haven’t had the time to read it all, but if you consider a paid journalist on a curated trip to the region and a professionally produced video series with apparent residents as credible sources, I am not convinced. It’s no secret that Bejing has a heavy grip on the media and censors basically all critical outlets. I do not expect any official account of anything bad ever happening there.
The concept of an independent Tibet never existed before the British imperialists in India plotted to expand their sphere of influence into China. See for instance the Lhasa Convention.
Furthermore:
Britain put before the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs a five-point demand, indicating the denial of China’s sovereignty over Tibet. When the Chinese government rejected the British demand, the British blocked all the roads leading from the British Raj in India to Tibet.
In 1913 the British government coerced local Tibetan authorities into declaring independence and proposed that:
“Britain be the weaponry supplier after total independence of Tibet;”
“Tibet accept British envoys’ supervision of Tibetan financial and military affairs in return for Britain’s support of Tibetan independence;”
“Britain be responsible for resisting the army of the Republic of China when it reaches Tibet;”
“Tibet adopt an open policy and allow freedom of movement of the British.”
I don’t think so. They can’t manufacture their weapons if the rest of the world stops exporting parts and material inputs to them. They are very far from self-reliant.
We’re going to have a world war against the USA and Israel. It might not be today, tomorrow or even in a few years… but I feel like it’s inevitable. They are rogue terrorist states and are responsible some of the most heinous war crimes in recorded history. They need to be stopped.
This is a gross generalization. It’s like aliens looking down on earth and saying “we really have to do something about these humans.”
Like, sure. We, as a species, might have earned that… But, is it all humans?
The right shift in power across nations could solve this. It starts with people acknowledging that the real issue is rogue governments. Right now in the United States, our government is rogue.
Random people born in Russia don’t want to kill Ukrainians any more than every American wants to kill random people in the Middle East. Our humanity is important, and where you’re born and live doesn’t dictate your loyalty to empowered dictators.
The movement that needs to happen is one where the people rise up in all nations, and unite. It starts with language. America doesn’t need to be destroyed any more than Russia, but their governments require radical changes.
It’s happening now, western countries have just mostly decided to fall in line and support them
Doesnt work that way. Evil is not a country. You can attack it and try to destroy it, and if you succeed, another country will take its place.
But yeah, its worth doing anyway since it gives temporary relief. Otherwise the logic would be to not try to stop oppressive countries, and that obviously doesnt work either.
What this place needs is a big spiritual upgrade of humans, so they would stop becoming evil just for money and power.
Just keep this in mind during the next election when you see the US suspects pushing “both sides” and “corporate dem” narratives. Don’t be a sucker.
deleted by creator
Maybe I’m ignorant but if every English speaking nation stood together and told the US that they were being evil and doing wrong, and that they’d no longer join in with their invasions, the US would probably stand down.
Too bad they’re all pussies (Australia included)
I don’t know what people are talking about here, but Trump is an evil asshole and this will never work.
This might have been the case under sane-but-horrible leaders like George W. Bush, Mike Pence, and the last Democrats, but I think this outcome is improbable as 1) that international united refusal didn’t happen when George W. Bush waged war over lies in the Middle East; 2) This administration is composed of hyped-up christo-fascists and their sycophants, and is goaded by oligarchs who want the destruction of the USA so they can buy up what remains.
It’s fucking wild that W is a beacon of sanity now. You aint wrong but its still fucking wild
No us is out of control under trump, no reason nor logic will influence the US unfortunately
No way Europe meaningfully stands up to Uncle Sam, and heinous Israeli-American war crimes are nothing new. Trump still hasn’t actually outdone the Iraq war, for example.
Europe and many.in the world are waiting that he gets voted out on 2028 in the meantime they are just reacting
deleted by creator
They won’t because Europe is always on the loosing side and getting in any war is bad, against the us, let’s be honest, it would be a disaster. Europe have to protect their people too.
The war that will change the world will be US x China. China is a military superpower and it is surpassing the US, or at least matching them, little by little.
That’s the scary part for me. they will end the world
I meant diplomatically and economically, not necessarily militarily. There are cards that can be played without getting into a hot (or even cold) war with the US; (most) European countries just don’t use them because A: Their elites profit from US war crimes too, and B: Most of them are happy being US vassal states.
Just like the rogue terrorist state Russia needs to be stopped in their attempted annexations and political psyops.
Or China needs to be stopped in their aggressions against Taiwan and ethnic cleansing of Uyghurs and other “undesirable” people.
I feel like there is no winning scenario left in this.
Who are “we” anyway?
Always whatabouting huh?
None of those is led by a documented pedophile
Oh wow, yeah if they’re at least undocumented it’s all good.
Just because Trump is basically the worst possible example of a human being there can be, I’m not gonna believe for a second that any other ruling politicians or oligarchs are saints. Just that those others have better control over the media, which Trump wants to achieve as well.
China didn’t bomb any school lately. Sounds like you’re looking for excuses for what your side is doing.
Which makes sense given feddit overt support for zionism
And what apparent side would that be, if I may ask?
You can’t compare China, who hasn’t waged a single war in 50 years, to a genocidal entity like “Israel” that is being constantly aided by the US empire and defended by the western propaganda machine.
And regarding Xinjiang, you may need to look at the facts before throwing terms like “ethnic cleansing.”
EDIT: I have to add how despicable and of ill nature it is to shift the conversation away from the issue at hand, i.e. the war crimes of the imperialist machine, and towards discursive topics.
China is now arguably the fifth largest supplier of arms supplying weapons and ammo to conflict regions. China is well known for its forced cultural assimilation and they have never stopped. Now they are openly committing genocide against Muslims.
I see you cherry picked the years because between the cultural revolution and the subsequent famine China lost well over 50 millions citizens.
We know the facts, the labor camps, the dramatic drop in birth rates, the altering of mosques to look more Chinese. Forced cultural assimilation is a genocidal act when the US did it to the Native Americans. China is no different.
Why did the Chinese lose so many citizens fighting fascist just to adopt capitalism and produce more billionaires than the US this and last year while also being an obvious oligarchy. Why did all these innocents need to die just for China to become fascist themselves?
If the US disappeared tomorrow Chiva would happily fill its spot as a the number one human rights abuser with their garbage partners Russia and North Korea.
Opening in the sense that there’s been over a decade of accusations and still no actual evidence of even a single death, or indeed any physical evidence at all, with the excuse that it’s all going on in secret. So, the opposite of open.
Israel couldn’t hide genocide in Gaza despite having it completely locked down and the tacit support of the media, but apparently China is doing it on an even bigger scale in a place people can freely travel to.
You keep saying that there is no evidence does not make it true. Birth rates plummeted by as much as 60% with China providing IUDs and sterilization.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/chinese-uyghur-policy-causes-unprecedented-fall-in-xinjiang-birthrates
I am absolutely not saying that what China has done is anything close to Israel and the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians. Instead it is very similar to the genocide the US did with Puerto Rico.
Capitalism and socialism are not some clear cut systems or categories that can be merely “adopted.” They are modes of production that are dictated by the material and social relations of production in a given space at a given time. For instance, the transition from feudalism to capitalism did not occur neither swiftly, nor neatly nor universally; rather, capitalist bubbles existed at the epitome of feudal rule and did not expand until the favourable material circumstances emerged — abrupt demographic changes in the 14th century, colonialist ventures by private companies in American continent, and so forth. And even after capitalism became the dominant mode of production, feudalist relations of production still existed at the peripheries.
A similar perspective should be adopted in China. The existence of markets is not a core aspsct of capitalism; and regarding billionaires, the PRC prosecutes even more of them, in addition to the tens of thousands of millionaires who emigrate every year.
This is exactly what socialism looks like, a transitional stage that will bring forth a post-capitalist society once the international contradictions (Chinese millionaires) as well as external (US imperialist encroachment) are extinguished. Some policies may succeed, while others may fail and become lessons for future policymaking. But to call this anything close to fascism is treason to the working classes of the Global South.
Just ask yourself a simple yet important question: what does the PRC stand to gain from indiscriminately persecuting its own citizens and making them suffer aimlessly?
You can travel right now to Xinjiang and visit all of its towns and cities freely with total access and ease (as many tourists do every year), and you would see people openly speaking Uyghur, rituals and local events practiced publicly, and mosques operating normally. If you’re adamant on believing what some white journalist from NYT or WSJ has to say instead of the locals and residents as well as tourists and independent, on-ground reporters, then this conversation should stop right here.
You don’t get more billionaires by practicing socialism. You would have to be truly naive to believe China is practicing socialism. Also, their greatest accomplishment of raising so many people out of poverty was because of capitalism not socialism.
Why does China engage in forced cultural assimilation? Because it always has throughout history. They even have a name for it, sinicization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization
China has always and will always be imperialist which is why when campists call out the US for Imperialism it is so unbelievably hollow.
You can also travel to reservations in the US to see Native Americans dancing and singing. Clearly this proves the US has done nothing wrong. To be frank, your position is not supported by facts and it is naive to say the least.
The US also prosecutes their wealthy like Martin Shkreli. Does this suddenly absolve their capitalism. I know you are not joking, but it is hard to take you seriously when you hand wave the fact that China has now created more billionaires than the US for the second year in a row.
I judge a nations level of fascism by not only their wealthy inequality but a growing wealth gap. A truly socialist country would not have this issue. China continues to increase its wealth gap dramatically.
https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/rise-wealth-private-property-and-income-inequality-china
If you are trying to convince me you are a campist you have done an excellent job.
Again, you’re ignoring the fact that socialism is not a defined set of policies that gets to be uniformly applied in a vaccum. The trajectory even has historically varied from one socialist state to another. To attribute the accomplishments of the PRC to “capitalism” is inaccurate. What there is in China is a market economy that is predominated by public ownership and state-owned enterprises, which is nowhere close to capitalism.
You condemn the consequences of the early Maoist policies, and then equally condemn Dengist reforms. What’s the point of critiquing for the sake of critiquing, whem there is no constructive effort on your part to properly assess and understand the material and historical circumstances that have led to China’s development into what it is now, only being guided by emotions and a confident lack of theory. One recent book on the matter that I recommend is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics by Roland Boer.
This is ahistorical and untheoretical thinking on your part. Imperialism is an advanced form of capitalism. An imperialist state is one that has saturated its domestic markets and as a consequence seeks to expand its markets and the reproduction of private capital overseas, by all means possible and most notably by force. China simply does not possess the features of imperialism. Prolewiki has a very informative article that explains the concept.
Until now, you’ve only indiscriminately sprinkled terms like imperialism and capitalism and fascism without much thought in the process, and so we’ve reached an impasse.
As to the Xinjiang matter, your views reflect those of the western propaganda machine. I’ve already mentioned above a FAQ compiled by Dessalines (yes, Lemmy’s lead dev) which contains many articles and documents that may at the very least give a different perspective on this matter.
Seeing as you have be unable to effectively refute anything I have said I think we are done here. Cheers!
feddit.org
The zionist instance lmao. Be careful mate the polizei might come to your house if you don’t support the genocide enough, you dirty antisemite
Oof you drank the db0 kool-aid. My condolences.
Btw. Israel is comitting a genocide in Gaza. Now by your logic, surely my comment must be deleted, right? But if you are honest, you don’t give a shit about people in Gaza.
Now try saying “genocidal states should be dismantled”.
Now try saying “from the river to the sea”
Triple reply? Someone’s triggered…
Yes i’m triggered asshole some friend died. Piece of shit. I hope they bomb your mum with white phosphorus see if you wouldn’t get TriGgeRed
My wife’s arab you fucking piece of shit
Why would you attack me by implying I have alterior motives when I simply replied to the top comment? It doesn’t mention an “imperialist machine”, it states that there will be a world war against the US & Israel.
I simply stated that I can see no “good” allied forces against the “bad” axis in this conflict as in WW2 (let’s just say that, for all its own problems, the lines were more clearly defined back then). Everyone’s kinda the baddies now.
Regarding your sources: Wow, someone has certainly been busy. I simply haven’t had the time to read it all, but if you consider a paid journalist on a curated trip to the region and a professionally produced video series with apparent residents as credible sources, I am not convinced. It’s no secret that Bejing has a heavy grip on the media and censors basically all critical outlets. I do not expect any official account of anything bad ever happening there.
Invading Tibet was an act of war.
The concept of an independent Tibet never existed before the British imperialists in India plotted to expand their sphere of influence into China. See for instance the Lhasa Convention.
Furthermore:
Source.
I thought we were defederating lemmy.ml?
All countries who is doing or supporting grave crimes agsinst humanity should be help acvoutsble including your trashy country
I don’t think so. They can’t manufacture their weapons if the rest of the world stops exporting parts and material inputs to them. They are very far from self-reliant.