I’m working on it. Maybe. Well, one day. Like when other Left of centre, anti trump, anti corpo type folks oppose the things I oppose in correct manner and degree, duh.
I’m working on it. Maybe. Well, one day. Like when other Left of centre, anti trump, anti corpo type folks oppose the things I oppose in correct manner and degree, duh.
I have a moment to reply to you now, so hopefully this will suffice:
I’m actually not only talking about transwomen vs bio women. I’m also talking about transmen vs bio men. I’m especially concerned about combat sports and similar where people could get seriously hurt due to a physical advantage/disadvantage. There are definitely sports where the skills needed aren’t depending on gender in the same way as others, but for me it’s always been about making sure that everybody has a fair chance and is safe. In disciplines where that isn’t an issue, I don’t care. I only care where there the advantages/disadvantages are a factor.
I also think I need to clear up that I don’t run around talking about trans people in sports all the time. To the best of my memory, I only brought up in the thread where I was permabanned from most of Lemmy because the thread claimed that all people who hold the opinion about trans people in pro sports are MAGA and I wanted to share that, that wasn’t always the case. I never really got to explain myself, just got labeled and banned and that was my main point in my original comment about how extreme Lemmy is and how difficult it is to foster a healthy debate forum when people are just as, if not more aggressive here than they were on reddit.
I’m not “unwilling to educate myself”. I just shared an opinion once and brought it up here as an example of how Lemmy is a terrible place for people to have talks and diverse opinions.
To me, it isn’t so much the opinions people have on here that disgusts me, it’s the way they communicate and debate. It is on an infantile level and it almost always in bad faith. That was my point in my original comment.
I frankly don’t give a damn what people do with their lives as long as they are happy and safe.
Also, I didn’t know you were trans and it doesn’t really change much for me either. I simply don’t agree that my view - not views - was transphobic. It may be uneducated since it’s not a topic I know everything about, but for something to be transphobic, it implies actively wanting to hurt and exclude trans people from society. You’re not gonna find me stating either anywhere.
I believe the most productive way to open people’s minds to the world isn’t to immediately go on the offensive and assume the worst about them when they say something that makes you go “Hm, I didn’t like that.” Most of the time it forces people into a very defensive position and closes them off from the points you’re trying to make and that is unfortunate.
I’m guilty of that myself, but I work on it and always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they no longer deserve it. The latest example we had in the community I hail from was a guy who became increasingly unhinged in his views and we tried talking to him until the admin had to ban him when he crossed the line and started arguing for lynchings. The first couple of months he just seemed to have some unpopular opinions that we tried to understand where he was coming from and in the end he just turned out to be nuts, which is a shame. I know the cultures are different in different communities here, but I do like it best when we try and understand one another and not carry over the social engineering the big tech bros instilled in us to be hostile and trigger happy toward everyone we meet online. That is why I left mainstream social media. I want a social media where people can actually connect and see each other as human beings underneath one opinion you or I or they don’t like.
Because I’m pretty sure most of us are pretty chill and friendly people when we aren’t stuck in that loop of aggressive communication.
I have to dip again, but I hope some of my novel here helped give some context.
I hope you have a nice and way less busy day than me @,@
It is “trans women/men” not “transwomen/men” (trans is an adjective, not a prefix, they are men/women, who are trans) and “cis men/women” not “biological men/women” (the concept of biological sex goes far deeper than what this use of the term implies, and it is also inappropriate to be talking about trans men/women, which is a gender, vs “biological” men/women, which means you’re actually talking about sex). Transmen/women and biological men/women are very much anti-trans dogwhistly terms (again - not implying you meant it as a dogwhistle, but telling you where you may be a better ally)
I think I made it quite clear in my post you replied to that I was also talking about trans men! I acknowledged that there were minor physical differences in trans men vs cis men. I am also concerned with safety - see the rest of my posts in this thread where I address the issue of safety! I am by no means suggesting that people who do have significant disparity be pit against one another, I am simply not choosing to limit that delineation only to transgender people.
This isn’t what we are discussing, you suggested separating people who have the same gender from one another. Trans women and cis women are both women, as trans men and cis men are both men.
The first time you shared the opinion, sure, you aren’t unwilling. But continuing to hold such an opinion and defend it when challenged despite not actually investigating how valid it is in reality, shows an unwillingness to learn. Your opinion in this case is not innocuous - it is something that will affect the lives of a group of people who are already constantly under attack by the media, governments, and those around them.
I can’t really vouch for what you said specifically that got you banned, or for the reaction to what you said, some instances are more reactive in that sense than others.
I am glad to have been an example of non-infantile response to you in debate.
I don’t mean to harp on but
Having a separate category for trans men and a separate category for trans women is literally exclusionary. It reinforces the (transphobic) idea that trans men are not men and trans women are not women. You, despite maybe not being a transphobe, currently hold one (1) view that is itself transphobic. And hey, I don’t think its entirely your fault. Transphobia is so deeply rooted in our society that even trans people struggle with internalised transphobia.
But if its the word “transphobia” that is where its getting stuck then let me rephrase. It is a view which at best is just false and misinformed and has overlap with genuine anti-trans rhetoric, and at worst contributes to the continued oppression of transgender people.
This is a sticky one. It is not the job of the oppressed to educate anybody, I hope we can agree on that. I agree that the approach you are talking about is not the best way to sway someone, but put yourself in the shoes of trans folk. It is a constant barrage of hate. For safety, it can be better to assume the worst and be proven wrong. It is also exhausting to always have to be the one who is trying to justify your existence and inclusion. All the same goes for other marginalised groups. Judging by your post history I think you’re a woman, another marginalized group. I am sure you can appreciate what I’m getting at. It is, honestly, self defense, and I can’t fault people for it.
You’re right though that it crops up in other places too. Tankies hate the libs, libs hate the tankies, anarchists hate the libs, the right hates the libs, socialists hate the libs. /j. I think its just a symptom of online forums if left unchecked. There are instances which are worse and better for this though. My instance for example, beehaw, has the rule of “be(e) nice”, and I think you can typically expect to have a good discussion with a beehaw user even if you disagree.
Hope your busy day is nice at least.