- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- hardware@lemmy.world
‘Black Pearl solid silver conductors drawn in diamond coated dies and insulated with virgin FEP dielectric’ doesn’t help.
You must log in or register to comment.
It used to be worse, older men would spend more and more for audio when all people lose hearing frequencies as a function of ageing.
I did a similar check on cables of various lengths during my undergrad. Basically just took some recording then plugged the output back into the input using cables from just a couple inches long (intended for connecting guitar pedals sitting next to each other) up to around 16 foot (I was a student and had no intention of spending money on 100 foot cables I’d never use again), also various qualities at the low end.
There was no measurable difference between any of them, whether it was a real audio signal being analyzed or even various types of noise (that tend to load up all of the frequencies).
The only difference between the different tests was the usual randomness of the lowest order bits on the recording device itself, which I believe is influenced by whatever EM activity is in the area, including the CMB, which can’t be cut out without cutting out the input signal itself unless maybe if you do the test inside a faraday cage.
And if you’re thinking “oh so then there might be a difference if you cut that randomness out”, yes, but anything you listen to is still more affected by that interference than any cable choice and you probably never noticed that interference in the first place.
Oh also, if you’re thinking of listening to music inside a faraday cage, it won’t get rid of that interference because the music wasn’t likely recorded in a faraday cage, so the recording itself already has that interference noise, you just won’t be adding even more from your own setup if you did it in a faraday cage.
I saw a video a while back where they routed audio through a banana, and nobody could pick out the audio that went through said banana. I can’t find it, but here is a guy expanding on that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmCy686IC8
I dug up an article about it: https://www.zmescience.com/science/news-science/audiophile-banana-blind-test/
I started in the record business back in the 70s, primarily handling classical records, and even worked for Telarc Records, the leading audiophile record label in the vinyl/CD eras, so I’ve had a LOT of contact with the high-end audio world.
Articles claiming that there are no differences in cables (and other audiophile doodads) have been running the entire time, and nobody ever listens. Audiophiles don’t want to listen, they want to indulge their fantasies, and don’t mind paying for it.
They aren’t much different than the Sociopathic Oligarchs who are blowing their money on rockets. Audiophiles are guys who don’t have rocket money to waste, but they’ve got audio gear money to stimulate those dopamine receptors, so whaddaya got that’s expensive?
And the worst part is, in most cases these cords are hidden behind the equipment! It’s not like you can even peacock with them!
You do cable management correctly, and all you can do is, “trust me, bro, I have these skookum cables that cost a shitton hidden back there…”
🤣🤣🤣
Just ask an audiophile for a tour of their rig, and they’re happy to have you stick your head against the wall to peer back there and see his $2000 worth of stupid cables. He’ll even hold the flashlight.
And it’s definitely a “Him,” no other pronouns required. I’ve never encountered a female audiophile. The woman of the house (if there is one) is always in the other room, rolling her eyes, and sighing. Audiophile gear already has a very low WAF - Wife Acceptance Factor - an actual audiophile thing - and expensive cables are among the lowest WAF of all.
I mean, what else are they going to do with it, besides show it off? Play music? They’ve only got three records, and two of them are German sound effects, and the other is the 1812 Overture that skips when the (Actual! Real!) cannons go off.
And it’s definitely a “Him,” no other pronouns required. I’ve never encountered a female audiophile.
I have. Although TBH they were both on the spectrum, albeit not in the same way. One was even back in the early 90s, and had a bangin’ car audio system as good as any peacocking young man.
the other is the 1812 Overture that skips when the (Actual! Real!) cannons go off.
Oooo… insufficient vibrational isolation. That’s a low bar to cross with turntables; you either get or build a dedicated stand (not difficult), or your deck has that isolation tech built-in (upper midrange or higher). The easiest way to check for built-in is to tap the platter (from the side) and see if the entire deck shifts or wobbles in the case. If it does, it’s vibrationally isolated. Although how well it is, is dependent on a number of other increasingly technical factors.
Of course, this also predicates upon having this system in a space where you can crank the sound up to 11 without having the cops knock on your door with a noise violation in hand.
Isolation:
In the 90s, I had a buddy with a system that ran above $50k. He kept the system in a separate room, and punched holes in the wall to run the cables to the speakers in the living room. That was to offer isolation to the rack from the speakers.
The rack that held his system was square tubular steel, and he baked sand in the over to eliminate all moisture, and poured it into the tubing, tapping it down. The rack weighed a ton when it was done. I don’t remember what he did with his turntable, but he probably had those little inverted cones as feet. I remember it had a really heavy base.
He got divorced.
In college, I knew a bunch of guys who put their turntables on a shelf hanging from the ceiling, closely resembling a kid’s playground swing. It was supposed to isolate the turntable from footsteps in the room, but I liked to point out that it’s really exposed to someone walking around upstairs. They didn’t like hearing that.
BTW, the reference to the 1812 Overture was a real one. When I worked for Telarc, we put out an LP of the 1812 using actual cannons. When you looked at the vinyl, you could see where the grooves had to spread apart to capture the wild track of the groove when the cannons blew. MANY, perhaps MOST, turntables couldn’t track it, and audio stores used to love to use that LP, and other Telarc releases, to demonstrate their wares. I used to get calls at work from fans who would actually BRAG that they blew out their giant expensive speakers with that recording. Well, good for you buddy, thanks for being a loyal customer, I guess…
Reminds me of a vintage stereo repair shop near my old place. The guy would give you a free length of lamp cord with every purchase because “its good enough”.
This is the same tired thing that’s been going on since I can ever remember. First establish audiophiles as some deranged group of people that are willing to spend the insane amount of money on ridiculous science and then point and laugh.
Real audiophiles don’t give two flying fucks about their cables, for the most part, outside of fundamentals being solid, good shielding, etc.
This is just the electronics version of the same shit you see across every market. $2,000 steaks covered in gold foil - but we’re not castigating steak lovers because a steak lover would not buy such a thing.
The world is filled with people who have so much money it’s embarrassing, and it’s hard for the average chucklehead to understand that.
It kind of pisses me off that they didn’t compare against lamp wire tied to rounded nails. They had the gear.
Yeah, from what it looks like to me audiophiles care mostly about speakers/headphones and sometimes about having a fully analog setup. Rest is very situational such as a sound card.
It’s a collecting hobby. It doesnt have to make sense. Collectors might believe a late 60s early 70s muscle car is better than a modern sports car, but objectively a modern sports car can outperform it easily. But there’s the cool factor, the aesthetics, and the desire to be the one to have that are all equally important to collectors.
Fly fishing and Fly rods are pretty much the same deal, imo – i have a 9wt Cabelas-specific fly rod that feels as good to cast as my 5wt Sage. The cost difference was hundreds of dollars. But flyfishing dude-bros with their simms trucker caps and name brand apparel from forehead to toes clamor to buy the newest and “best” flyrod they can get. It’s silly. Dont get me started on Simms nippers. I love the sport but im not a collector.
All that said, let the collectors collect their expensive fancy shit. It’s good to have hobbies.
Audio people collect equipment (amplifiers, receivers, turntables, subwoofers, speakers. modulators), not cables.
There are people who actually understand audio, and they are extraordinarily cynical and dismissive of these types of products. Then there are people who don’t really understand their hobby, they just know they like to spend money on it. I’m describing the difference between an informed connoisseur / collector VS a gadget goof.
lamp wire tied to rounded nails
Speakers that I have actually use something like that between the speaker with the powered amp and the other one. Just a cord that I needed to hook into springed connectors. It works fine.
Here’s the actual ASR post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kimber-rca-cable-vs-amazon-basics-video.70289/
couldn’t be me…
This is actually correct. Gold doesn’t corrode. Have you ever used a corroded plug?
Doesn’t really matter within normal audio frequencies. You’re just as good with chrome plated ones as with gold plates ones.
The metal does not affect the frequencies in the electrical signal.
I just don’t use corroded cables. Seems to work.
What cables do you use for listening underwater? That’s where I’m getting the most corrosion.
i don’t. i use amethyst crystals
They have the full resonance frequency range!
and they’re delicious during times of famine or video game!
Correct. And if you want one that doesn’t corrode, you get gold plated.
No, I’ll go optical instead of buying $5,000/oz gold plated deep space exploration cables
I mean, I don’t think I’ve ever had brass audio cables corrode when kept indoors and dry.
You’re really overselling how big of a deal gold plated connectors are. Here’s a stereo 1/8” TRRS cable for $1.54 that has gold plated connectors. You even have to scroll down the page to see where they mention it because it’s seriously not that big of a deal.
I have a bunch of old audio gear where every time I use it I have to jiggle and rotate the audio connectors to clear the corrosion or else the audio will cut out and yes, I’ve used contact cleaner. It doesn’t have to look visibly rusty to be an issue.
Wait, is brass audio cables a thing now? Brass, really?
Almost everything electric that plugs into something else is made out of brass/brass coated steel
Wow, things must have changed a lot. I’ll have to read up on that
Likely. Just don’t rotate the plug while listening.
right, but wouldn’t that be longevity over quality? I guess you could argue they are one in the same, but the article is about the audio quality of higher end cables being negligible compared to the basic amazon ones. and while you are absolutely correct about gold resisting corrosion, copper is a better conductor than gold, so the joke still stands.
(also fuck amazon)
Yes. I’m pointing out that the meme is a straw man argument.
While I agree and appreciate the spirit of the article, fuck Amazon, if you’re going to buy cheap cables at least buy Hosa or something like that, don’t give money to that shit company.
I have a bunch of Hosa cables for music creation and also just for normal headphones and such. They haven’t let me down yet!
Yep, same here as well, Hosa and Cable Matters, which I was buying from Amazon until I cut off Prime 2 years ago. I wish I could find the Cable Matters cables elsewhere because they are good quality and cheap, back to Hosa.
The thing about audiophiles is that you can’t tell them anything, they have to listen to the wires themselves.
I used to be on the r/audiophile subreddit. It’s amazing what people will convince themselves they can hear the difference with.
The only difference they can’t hear is between truth and fiction.
Heh. Industry joke: why does thunder come after lightning?
Because, even God has to wait for the fucking sound guy.
former sound guy here. yep. needy high maintenance “talent/artists” are the reason every sound guy is permanently annoyed
Hey, they annoy the lighting guys, too.
getting through the night saying “thank fuck i’m not that douchenozzle’s roadie/tech/bus driver/any damn job involving working with him/her beyond this show…”
Underrated comment right here
I started making my own cables. Now I only have to worry about my own shitty craftsmanship. And boy is it shitty.
But hey I get cables at less than half the cost. And it’s fun.
Is this like crimping your own network cables? Or are you talking more rudimentary?
Audio cables. I’m a musician and audio engineer. Soldering two or three conductor wire to 1/4” phono jacks.
What cables are you using? I can highly recommend Sommer cables, especially Spirit XXL for guitar/bass.
Mogami cables and Square Plug jacks. Both straight and right angles.
I hate that shit. With my crappy iron it takes forever to put the solder in place and make sure the wires don’t touch each other. I keep putting off repairing the cables on two sets of headphones just because I don’t wanna do the soldering, and that’s while I need one of them for decent sound and no lag with the DAW. Worse even, I will probably soon need to make another adapter from a 4-pin plug to two jacks, and that’s quite a little cramped nest.
The initial investment of a high quality iron goes a long way. And is worth it.
90% of it is making sure you have heavy enough gauge wires, a proper solder join, and (if you are feeling itchy) cable shielding.
You could buy STP 2-wire, 4-wire, or 8-wire and have plenty for darn near any project.
once you get a crimper it’s really easy
My experience is mostly in regards to headphones, but as an ASR-pilled audio enthusiast, Audio Science Review has been nothing but a great resource for anyone hoping to escape the audiophoolery nonsense that plagues audio “hobbies”. I don’t necessarily agree with every sentiment expressed there, but having a community that prioritizes objective, reproducible testing results as the basis for evaluating gear seems to be a rare thing these days.
Lately I’ve been going to bat for audiophiles. People get really shrill about how unpractical their gear is and how much smarter they are for knowing that cheaper cables exist. But ultimately it’s a hobby. They like the exotic expensive stuff because it’s fun. The value is largely extrinsic.
Is a really nice fountain pen worth a couple hundred dollars actually 2000 times better than a bic? Is a collectors vehicle safer, faster, or more practical than a modern one? Is the story better if it’s a first edition?
Ultimately audiophile stuff is more like collectibles than tools. Sounding good is important, but also important is just geeking out on something. And don’t think there aren’t function-first audiophiles who buy purely utilitarian gear and get super deep into room treatment and such. But there are also people who value aesthetics too. Branding, finish, novelty. And ultimately they’re rich. Splurging on audio equipment for them would be like a regular person splurging on expensive stadium food or something. Or perhaps even more appropriate, stadium beer, which is the exact same beer that can be purchased much more easily and cheaply under different circumstances.
While I get that, tolerating absolute bullshit pseudoscience (or anti-science) and letting people think it is a fact is exactly why there is a huge western general anti-science sentiment harming millions of people.
You have to call them out and shame them for spouting disinformation bullshit as “science” and facts.
The difference in your analogy is that fountain pen enthusiasts never* spout pseudoscience and disinformation as justification and/or discount actual science and blind tests. Audiophiles do that regularly…
Yes, if they say that they love designs, collections, how it makes them feel, whatever, sure. Don’t tolerate lying and pseudoscience though.
Then there’s the inbetween. Want a refillable fountain pen that doesn’t dry up after a month of not used? Spend 50$. Want a in-ear/earbud that’s actually good? Research a bit and get one for 100$.
There’s a difference between “audiophiles” that just want nice things and “Audiophiles” that believe in deranged pseudoscience. Why they bought it matters,
Overpriced but well made equipment (that doesn’t pretend to be anything else) is fine. It’s stuff like this or cables like these people make fun of.
Is a really nice fountain pen worth a couple hundred dollars actually 2000 times better than a bic? Is a collectors vehicle safer, faster, or more practical than a modern one?
The difference is that collector vehicles are not seen or advertised as having higher safety than a modern vehicle and a fountain pen is not seen as being more convenient or even as reliable as a bic.
(Certain) Audiophiles regularly confuse people not part of the hobby, convincing them that they need a fancy cable or else their equipment won’t work. Monster cables preyed on this for years.
You don’t see people doing the same for buying a pen. Nobody goes to a store intending to buy a bic and accidentally getting talked into buying a mont blanc.
If they didn’t prey upon those not interested in the hobby, then I’d agree with your take.
There are some really elitist audiophiles who think they always know best and that their preferences are “objectively correct”
Then there are people like z-reviews who fall in love with $30 headphones and mention in the same breath as $3000 ones. Another thing I like about him is that he also recommends buying aftermarket cables quite regularly, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard him talk about them effecting the audio: it was always about aesthetics and comfort/feel, like how the sheathing feels or how soft and flexible a braided rope cable is over the stiff and scratchy out-of-the-box factory-cheapo one
Yeah there is definitely a difference between $30 dollar headphones and $3000 Dollar ones. I bought cheap razer headphones and expensive mid range Sennheiser headphones, the Sennheiser are amazing, razer is practically garbage in comparison. Never cared about cables though as long as they work and last long, I don’t care.
If truth in advertising is what you seek, I’ve got bad news for you.
I’ve never seen audiophiles actually care about cables. The discussions are around speaker accuracy, room acoustics and treatment, listening position, and recording/mastering quality.
You haven’t gone far enough down the rabbit hole then. Good, keep it that way.
I’ve seen some wild takes that get propped up by some snake oil lovers like “breaking in” their cables for a few hundred hours before they sound ideal. The rabbit hole goes deep
Hahah yeah, the breaking in thing is also ridiculous.
It may (arguably) make some sense for speakers and headphones, since they actually have moving parts, but I’ve recently read a review for a portable digital audio player that the reviewer felt the need to “break in” before testing. ???
I thought the breaking in thing was for amps (specifically tube amps).
I’ve never heard it being used for cables, is that a real thing people do?
$4k is chump change. How about some $109,000, 3 meter long audio cables?
I’ve argued with enough audiophiles to know that is not the case. Cables are just the sane tip of the iceberg.
