Kamala would have continued suport for Israel, including arming and funding them, just like Biden. But starting literal war with Iran? Bombing school girls? I kinda doubt it. Biden didn’t.
What about firing all the senior generals and burning 14 years of missiles in 1 month or turning Hurmuz into a reparations toll booth?
IMO the lefty “own the libs” mentality is indistinguishable from maga’s brain rot. Like congrats your mom smoked weed instead of taking you to church I guess.
America is cooked because the people most dialed into what’s going on all have goldfish brains apparently.
Removing seniors generals make the chance of the usa winning the war lower. Israel will always get prioritized so the same amount of interceptors would have been used. The west should finally pay the price of hurting Iranians wirh sanctions by paying fortheir ships to pass from the straight
The United States stresses that integral to this pledge is the commitment never to allow Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon, and that it is prepared to use all elements of its national power to ensure that outcome. The United States further affirms the commitment to work together with other partners to confront Iran’s aggression and destabilizing activities, whether advanced directly or through proxies and terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Its the same doctrine that the Trump whitehouse is following. Biden supported the genocide of Palestine, under this doctrine. Do you think Kamala would have been to stop the 12 day war? Or would have even been interested in stopping it?
I don’t. At least not with the level of support to Israel you describe, a level of support almost certainly she would have maintained or at least increased. It would have been more polite. Probably more competent. Maybe they would have built a coalition first. Maybe they spend 6 months sane-washing it so that BlueMAGA supports it.
But this is what Israel wanted. And the Biden Whitehouse and the Harris candidacy ran on a policy of giving Israel everything they wanted.
Eh. For decades US Presidents have given full-throated support to Israel. For decades they have hugged Israel’s PM and invited them to Congress. For decades Israel has asked US Presidents to bomb Iran to dust. And for decades US Presidents said no. Until Trump.
I think a big part of “why now” is that the decades of propaganda painting Israel as the “good guys” of the region have really frayed. I believe that this was basically the last-ditch effort by Israel to meet it’s most desired strategic objectives before it loses its remaining political cover. There may have been more pushback from a less incompetent military under Harris, but I’m not at all confident that she wouldn’t have been sold on it anyway.
That’s only a valid argument if you assume more votes would be gained from acceding to their demands than not. Otherwise you still end up with a loss, only now you’re looking at the fucking Zionist ‘moderates’ being the missing piece that we have to accede ‘full-throatedly’ to, since we can’t ‘stop fascism’ without them.
Yeah this was the hand-wringing the trope they rolled out during the elections. Considering that the majority of Zionists are republicans already, at least in the form of Cristian zionists, we (both now and should have then) can readily dismiss this. It gets the Democratic candidate bupkis.
Yeah this was the hand-wringing the trope they rolled out during the elections.
And a miscalculation (or, depending on your point of view, throwing the game for the opposition) does not mean that the idea is inapplicable.
“They should have leaned more towards anti-Zionists to win” does not equate to “Completely acceding to anti-Zionists in a coalition which includes a large number of Zionists would have brought victory.”
Considering that the majority of Zionists are republicans already, at least in the form of Cristian zionists, we (both now and should have then) can readily dismiss this. It gets the Democratic candidate bupkis.
Okay, it doesn’t fucking matter that most Zionists are Republicans. What matters is that a sizable percentage, even if a minority, of Democrats are Zionists.
Using the term Zionist as you would on here, on Lemmy/the Fediverse, what percentage of Dem voters - who make up a good 1/3 of this country’s electorate - do you think are Zionists? How many do you think we can lose? How many dedicated anti-Zionists are out there in the electorate, willing to vote for the Dems if they change position on just this one issue?
It’s fair to say that Israel has wanted to push out or kill all the Palestinians for decades, yet no POTUS before Biden gave them carte blanche to do so. Going on that standard there’s no telling what Biden’s actual red lines were. Especially since reducing Iran to reinforce the stranglehold of the global north’s oligarchs has long been a goal of the Pentagon too.
But you see, it’s different because the US is only supplying the orphan crushing machine, keeping it running, and making more. It’s okay as long as we aren’t actually throwing the orphans in ourselves!
This is correct, mostly because apparently they already knew Strait of Hormuz was an issue. War is off the table if it hurts economically.
But bombing school girls? I could see it not stopping them. They just wouldn’t be as inept to waste missiles on it; it wouldn’t stop them if there was a strategic reason. They’re not much better than Israel, if our actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria are any indication.
At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. … Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air … Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. … The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.[55][56]
The US had to cover up the attack and still supports Israel to the hilt.
“It was significant that, in contrast to his secretary of state, President Johnson fully accepted the Israeli version of the tragic incident.” He notes that Johnson himself included only one small paragraph about the Liberty in his autobiography,[57] in which he accepted the Israeli explanation, minimized the affair and distorted the number of dead and wounded, by lowering them from 34 to 10 and 171 to 100, respectively. Lenczowski further states: “It seems Johnson was more interested in avoiding a possible confrontation with the Soviet Union, … than in restraining Israel.”
Yeah. It’s horrific. And the reluctance to confront Israel only gotten worse since then. Especially since AIPAC gaining a death grip on domestic US politics in the 1980s (it had been around since the 50s, but didn’t control discourse on Israel quite so totally), and then intensifying again with the heightened Islamophobia and evangelical millenarianism of the “War on Terror” in the 2000s.
Same reason they’re doing it now, to stem the flow of arms into Israel and make everyone enabling America and its attack dog choose between enabling us and having oil.
They eradicated most of Iran’s air defenses, which is kind of pertinent to the situation they find themselves in now.
Why exactly do you think Iran closed the strait?
… because the US joined an all-out fucking war on Iran, and increased oil prices weaken the domestic position of the American president to maintain the war.
Kamala would have continued suport for Israel, including arming and funding them, just like Biden. But starting literal war with Iran? Bombing school girls? I kinda doubt it. Biden didn’t.
What about firing all the senior generals and burning 14 years of missiles in 1 month or turning Hurmuz into a reparations toll booth?
IMO the lefty “own the libs” mentality is indistinguishable from maga’s brain rot. Like congrats your mom smoked weed instead of taking you to church I guess.
America is cooked because the people most dialed into what’s going on all have goldfish brains apparently.
Removing seniors generals make the chance of the usa winning the war lower. Israel will always get prioritized so the same amount of interceptors would have been used. The west should finally pay the price of hurting Iranians wirh sanctions by paying fortheir ships to pass from the straight
What about…
Bold of you to assume I’m a leftist because my mom told me to be one and not from all the bigoted shit I saw at church.
My thought exactly. Nothing dissuades people from being xtian than being around other xtians long enough.
https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/07/14/the-jerusalem-u-s-israel-strategic-partnership-joint-declaration/ (because the WH direct link memory holed’ it)
Its the same doctrine that the Trump whitehouse is following. Biden supported the genocide of Palestine, under this doctrine. Do you think Kamala would have been to stop the 12 day war? Or would have even been interested in stopping it?
I don’t. At least not with the level of support to Israel you describe, a level of support almost certainly she would have maintained or at least increased. It would have been more polite. Probably more competent. Maybe they would have built a coalition first. Maybe they spend 6 months sane-washing it so that BlueMAGA supports it.
But this is what Israel wanted. And the Biden Whitehouse and the Harris candidacy ran on a policy of giving Israel everything they wanted.
Eh. For decades US Presidents have given full-throated support to Israel. For decades they have hugged Israel’s PM and invited them to Congress. For decades Israel has asked US Presidents to bomb Iran to dust. And for decades US Presidents said no. Until Trump.
I think a big part of “why now” is that the decades of propaganda painting Israel as the “good guys” of the region have really frayed. I believe that this was basically the last-ditch effort by Israel to meet it’s most desired strategic objectives before it loses its remaining political cover. There may have been more pushback from a less incompetent military under Harris, but I’m not at all confident that she wouldn’t have been sold on it anyway.
Did you not notice the Gaza genocide? Whose presidency did it start under?
Please tell me you didn’t vote third party in November…
You keep following me around, straw-manning me, derailing the conversation, making ad hominem attacks. Get lost
Right …so anyways. Did you vote for Jill or not?
So you’ve moved on from bullying cross-dressers to bullying… people who ask why we’re bullying cross-dressers?
Really selling me and everyone else on how totally justified you were in your bullying.
Right. No anwser suggests you either voted third party, or you’re not even American anyways and your opinion on this matter does not matter.
Want to provide any input?
I mean if they, did, I’m sure you’ll see the point in advocating full-throatedly to their demands, since you couldn’t stop fascism without them.
That’s only a valid argument if you assume more votes would be gained from acceding to their demands than not. Otherwise you still end up with a loss, only now you’re looking at the fucking Zionist ‘moderates’ being the missing piece that we have to accede ‘full-throatedly’ to, since we can’t ‘stop fascism’ without them.
Yeah this was the hand-wringing the trope they rolled out during the elections. Considering that the majority of Zionists are republicans already, at least in the form of Cristian zionists, we (both now and should have then) can readily dismiss this. It gets the Democratic candidate bupkis.
And a miscalculation (or, depending on your point of view, throwing the game for the opposition) does not mean that the idea is inapplicable.
“They should have leaned more towards anti-Zionists to win” does not equate to “Completely acceding to anti-Zionists in a coalition which includes a large number of Zionists would have brought victory.”
Okay, it doesn’t fucking matter that most Zionists are Republicans. What matters is that a sizable percentage, even if a minority, of Democrats are Zionists.
Using the term Zionist as you would on here, on Lemmy/the Fediverse, what percentage of Dem voters - who make up a good 1/3 of this country’s electorate - do you think are Zionists? How many do you think we can lose? How many dedicated anti-Zionists are out there in the electorate, willing to vote for the Dems if they change position on just this one issue?
This may come as a bit of a shock, but Gaza is not Iran.
Well no shit.
You don’t see a relationship between the two? You don’t see a pattern?
i didn’t say anything about Gaza. We’re talking about Iran
Well no shit.
You don’t see a relationship between the two? You don’t see a pattern?
I think you accidentally posted this twice.
I mean, I did post it twice to two separate people saying the same thing.
It’s fair to say that Israel has wanted to push out or kill all the Palestinians for decades, yet no POTUS before Biden gave them carte blanche to do so. Going on that standard there’s no telling what Biden’s actual red lines were. Especially since reducing Iran to reinforce the stranglehold of the global north’s oligarchs has long been a goal of the Pentagon too.
ftfy.
Biden didnt seem to care about Israel using bombs he supplied to kill plenty of school girls.
But you see, it’s different because the US is only supplying the orphan crushing machine, keeping it running, and making more. It’s okay as long as we aren’t actually throwing the orphans in ourselves!
Start a war, probably not
Let Israel start a war and follow in after, probably
This is correct, mostly because apparently they already knew Strait of Hormuz was an issue. War is off the table if it hurts economically.
But bombing school girls? I could see it not stopping them. They just wouldn’t be as inept to waste missiles on it; it wouldn’t stop them if there was a strategic reason. They’re not much better than Israel, if our actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria are any indication.
You’re not wrong there
Maybe she wouldn’t, but Bibi would. Then what?
Then Iran and Israel trade shots a few times, like happened the past dozen fucking times Israel attacked vital Iranian infrastructure.
I don’t think we are dealing with the same Israel we were before October 7th.
And I don’t think Harris has some secret way to handle Bibi that neither Joe nor Donald have.
Bibi would have dragged her along just like he has the other two.
I think we’re dealing with the exact same Israel we were before October 7th.
No, but only Trump has been shitwitted enough to crater his own domestic approval rating and long-term US interests for Israeli asspats on his diaper.
Except Bibi’s strikes on Iran literally were not accompanied by American intervention in Iran during the October 2024 Israeli attacks on Iranian soil.
So clearly there is a difference between now and then.
Oooookay, we are totally dealing with pre-October 7th Israel. The one that knowingly attacked a US ship in 1967: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
The US had to cover up the attack and still supports Israel to the hilt.
Yeah. It’s horrific. And the reluctance to confront Israel only gotten worse since then. Especially since AIPAC gaining a death grip on domestic US politics in the 1980s (it had been around since the 50s, but didn’t control discourse on Israel quite so totally), and then intensifying again with the heightened Islamophobia and evangelical millenarianism of the “War on Terror” in the 2000s.
What would Kamala do after Iran closes the strait in response to Israel’s actions?
Why would Iran close the strait in response to Israel’s actions?
Same reason they’re doing it now, to stem the flow of arms into Israel and make everyone enabling America and its attack dog choose between enabling us and having oil.
Jesus fucking Christ, you can’t be serious.
So why didn’t they do this the last dozen times they were attacked by Israel?
Because those were much more limited strikes. Why exactly do you think Iran closed the strait?
They eradicated most of Iran’s air defenses, which is kind of pertinent to the situation they find themselves in now.
… because the US joined an all-out fucking war on Iran, and increased oil prices weaken the domestic position of the American president to maintain the war.