• WesternInfidels@feddit.online
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    12 hours ago

    It feels so out of the blue, so unnecessary. Like the writer had been bored. It’s difficult to imagine that this didn’t jolt readers out of the story, even at the time.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      8 hours ago

      Languages change. Moron, idiot and imbecile used to be medical terms. Gay used to simply mean happy and excited. A fag used to be a term for a cigarette.

      I really doubt it would have appeared in a mainstream children’s book if it were seen as at all offensive.

      Words like “bugger” and “damn” used to be extremely offensive curses. Now they’re often used as very mild expressions of annoyance to avoid using the serious ones.

      • DamienGramatacus@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        Weren’t idiot, moron and imbecile medical terms specifically used by white scientists to describe black people back in the good old eugenics days of the 1920’s America? Language changes sure but it often has very racist roots.

        • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          I had always heard that it originally meant a stick to be used for kindling and was adapted to smoking once the tobacco trade was a thing. Probably complete horseshit because no internet when I was a kid, but I never bothered to look it up.

          • FishFace@piefed.social
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            46 minutes ago

            A faggot originally meant a bundle of sticks or twigs, and they were used to light fires, but I don’t think this has any relation to “fag” as in cigarette. Etymonline says of the latter:

            British slang for “cigarette” (originally, especially, the butt of a smoked cigarette), 1888, probably from fag “loose piece, last remnant of cloth” (late 14c., as in fag-end “extreme end, loose piece,” 1610s)

            That meaning of faggot, interestingly, comes from the same root as the Roman symbol “fasces” which is a bundle of sticks from which we get the modern word fascism.

            Another fun fact: there’s a traditional British dish called faggots which are a kind of meatball made from offal, somewhat similar to haggis but uncased.

      • gerryflap@feddit.nl
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        7 hours ago

        Exactly. I started reading The Fellowship of the Ring again, and it takes some getting used to that “queer” is used in a completely different way than nowadays.

      • SaraTonin@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Enid Blyton used it a surprising amount. But she was also considered old-fashioned and racist by critics at the time, so…

    • Scrollone@feddit.it
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      9 hours ago

      I mean… there’s also a famous Agatha Christie’s book that used to have the N-word in its title.

      We’re viewing these things with our modern eyes. But they didn’t have this kind of sensibility those days. It probably felt like using any other word: normal.

      I wonder if our grandchildren will feel the same way about something we say normally today.

    • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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      9 hours ago

      I doubt whether the vast majority of British readers would’ve been jolted by it - at the time of first publication. It was a word that had been in everyday parlance that got attached to dark “things” as a describer.

      Here’s the thing though, go forward maybe 15 years again and you have the 1964 Smethwick constituency election. The winner had a, uhh, memorable slogan: “If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour.”

      It’s worth noting that the “n*****s” in question were, most likely, gonna be from the Punjab. Go figure.

      So, yeah, in less than a generation the word in question went from everyday speech with no overt pejorative meaning to the explicitly racist word it is today. It morphed.

      • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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        2 hours ago

        George Carlin was voicing Mr Conductor in the American dubs in the 1990s, so a solid 20 years after the retraction

      • HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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        3 hours ago

        I don’t remember him really weighing in on that word. And if I’m not mistaken he was friends with Richard Pryor.