SlAvA UkrAnI!
Oh boy the reddit imperialists are angry with this one
so much pro russian propaganda in the meme channel, crazy
Actually, the opposite.
Crazy to see many imperialist supporters trying to justify Western capitalist puppets/allies
I’m not saying the US is good, that’s classic whataboutism.
You made a classic ad hominem attack since you had no proper response to the meme.
I replied to see your reaction and it confirms it then.
information manipulation is how russia and friends have been winning the global war against the US for the last twenty years. can’t beat them with raw power, so beat them where you can. what is the biggest weakness right now in the US? a wildly gullible populace with very little critical thinking skills due to decades of struggling education. and it’s working, overall.
This is just Judeo-Bolshevik conspiracy for liberals.
agreed, it all sucks
eh, prettt sure most of that is the US punching itself in the face
Laundering your talking points as text on an image does not a meme make
That’s literally what a political meme is
I was being kind to this low effort post
From the latest Perceptions of Democracy index, from NIRA Data:
Ukrainians are among the most skeptical of the democratic processes in their country. Meanwhile, even a country as hotly contested as Venezuela, faith in elections is skyrocketing. And this is gathered by a western org run by a NATO official.
As always, I would like to point out that these kinds of surveys of public opinion are not really evidence of anything besides public opinion itself.
You cannot assert that a certain country has more or less of some quality simply because more people in that country said they think they do more frequently than people in a different country did.
For example if you asked Americans (particularly those in the south or rural areas) if they thought their country was more “free” than the rest of the world, you would probably get higher numbers than you would from most other regions of the world despite the fact that America is not that free relative to much of the world.
Exactly, its just anecdotal evidence on a bigger scale
So would you say, that actively hostile imperialist western nations and their propaganda apparatus know more about democracy in Venezuela than Venezuelans?
For example if you asked Americans (particularly those in the south or rural areas) if they thought their country was more “free” than the rest of the world, you would probably get higher numbers than you would from most other regions of the world
Maybe this data will surprise you then:
Haha funnily enough that’s the graph I first had this argument with cowbee about lol
Trends in perception, as well as comparison, does tell a good story. In many ways it’s a superior method of data gathering on democracy than the standard method of defining democracy as whatever the Nordics are doing, and then grading everyone based on how closely they follow that.
Direct comparison of perception of democracy by people who have lived in both countries would be much clearer evidence of differences in democracy itself.
However, the raw perception of democracy without any other reference to other democracies does not allow for comparison/measurement of democracy itself but rather indicates how happy individuals feel within their current democracy.
The data is a good story and it does encode information, but that information is more significantly influenced by culture, current events, and overall happiness of the populace than it is by “level of democracy”
I’m curious what you even think democracy is? Like what is more democratic vs less democratic? It’s kind of a strange word. Like to me democracy would be the idea that a government should generally do as its people desire. There can be many ways this is accomplished. I think we all agree on that. Elections vary in how they function country to country. The mechanics of them that is.
To me though I don’t really see the issue with measuring it based on how the people in that country feel about it. If the idea of democracy is that those very people should have their views represented, then is them feeling as if their views are represented not evidence of a more democratic outcome?
Look at it in the reverse. Would you make the arguement for example: “Well yes Country B’s people generally feel as if their country is less democratic, but they simply do not know what they are talking about. The democratic process is doing a great job of representing their views. Even if they do not think so.”
It’s a bit contradictory isn’t it? Unless you would have some other definition of democracy, which is why I asked that earlier in my reply. Maybe it would make more sense to me if you explained what you see democracy as.
If you follow the comment chain you’ll see me and cowbee talk about how subjective the term “democracy” is.
However, we can illustrate my point using proof by counter example. It is entirely possible to imagine two countries with the same government structure (and hence “democracy”) but with different answers to this kind of survey.
Imagine two nearly identical countries each with corrupt governments having the exact same structure and culture etc. The only major difference between them is that in one of the countries, a recent scandal has occurred which was able to bring to light deep seated corruption and criminal activity of many public figures, whereas similar acts are being committed by the govt. of the other country, but none of it has been brought so fully to light yet.
The citizens of the former country are likely to rank their “democracy” lower than the citizens of the latter would rate their own, despite the fact both governments have equal amounts of corruption. Hence, surveys of popular opinion of democracy are not directly indicative of the “level of democracy” or level of corruption or fidelity etc. etc… QED.
Sure. When I mean comparison, I mean in trends. If a country scores lower in one year while another scores higher, and this trend repeats, it’s a sign of improving and decaying conditions. Democracy isn’t really something you can measure directly, which makes the entire subject pretty muddy.
that’s why I put quotes around “level of democracy.” If everyone in a country had to vote directly for any and all government action, that is kind of the purest democracy possible, but it would not be a very effective method of government especially for large countries.
In order to rank democracy in a meaningful way, one would need to decide on what the desired outcomes of a “good” democracy are and which outcomes are most important etc. which would make the scale subjective.
Even that would not be democratic, as it ignores the role of ownership of production and distribution. In a capitalist economy, such would still be subject to the same mechanisms preventing bourgeois democracy from following the will of the proletariat.
What part of martial law do you not understand?
A country being invaded can be and will be overthrown if possible. In fact, it’s been done many times in European imperialist history.
That’s why the clause exists, even before democracy was normalized in Europe. Just find someone else in line for procession and install a puppet prince.
It’s even been abused. Some speculate that Trump would trigger martial law to stay in office - or even Netenyahu himself clinging to power.
In the end you don’t want a captured government. That’s also historically been really bad.
Ukrain already has a captured government. 😜
Canceling elections is totally fine if it’s our guy
Ukraine needs to have elections
The thing is their constitution states that during a time of war they can’t.
Abraham Lincoln was given a choice to not hold elections during the American civil war but he understood the war is at the will of the people. Are we afraid the Ukrainian people will vote against the war?
You can’t let a pesky volk get in the way of the endsieg
I don’t see any blue states going along with any potential attempts by Trump to cancel the election. There is literally nobody who is going to invade mainland USA in the next 3 years. It’s just not in the cards. In Ukraine, women my age notice that 10% of their dating pool is gone (dead, moved abroad, missing?). The average US citizen is going to experience whatever obvious false flag, just something less impactful than 2020s “wearing masks”, even if that’s literally a drone strike from Latin America, and they’re going to cancel elections over it?
I still think their play is that if Trump is succeeded by another Republican or if Trump himself becomes too unpopular, they coup him, and we wind up with a military junta. The libs would be so busy applauding their ‘saviors’ that they wouldn’t even notice their rights being taken away until it’s too late. I think the capitalists are tired of democracy, and want to be able to drop the pretenses without ceding control.
lol if you think Venezuela is not a dictatorship.
What does this post have to do with Venezuela
Venezuela is more democratic than western countries. Why is it that westerners demonize revolutionaries for not following the political process, and demonize electoralists for following the political process anyways? Because both are threats to capital.
…maybe because many westerners are worried about losing their democracy? I mean, when democracies Fall, they usually don’t make room for better democracies, historically speaking.
Westerners in general don’t have democracy, capitalists have democracy in the west. That’s why the implementation of socialism is necessary, bringing democracy to the working classes and kicking out the capitalists.
Just because the majority of the people in a country disagree with you doesn’t mean it’s not a democracy. In many western countries there are (still) free and fair elections. This is verifiable. But democracy lives off of active participation, and there are people (read: fascists) who see democracy as a threat and do everything they can to sow FUD in order to reduce election participation.
Elections are not indicative of democracy. The fact that capital is what determines which parties are viable, what candidates are allowed to run, and controls the entire economy means that elections in capitalism are more of a pressure valve than an actual way to get your voice across. Capitalism is incompatible with working class democracy.
How the hell are elections not indicative of democracy? I mean, just because you have elections doesn’t mean you have a proper democracy (e.g. if there is only one party available), but how those elections are run says a lot. They’re the core of any democracy. Democracy is, by definition, the people being ruled by the people. So you need some form of governance that is accountable to the people.
And capital is far from the only thing that determines if parties are viable. Yes, it plays too much of a role (especially in the US, but there are many western countries that aren’t the US), but let’s not pretend it’s some mysterious being that decides everything. That ignores so many important factors.
Elections aren’t democracy, as you said democracy is rule by the majority. Pluralism, the ability to choose between parties, isn’t actually democracy either. A single party system can be more democratic if it’s a consultative democracy and reflects the will of the majority, like how it works in China (though China obviously has many, many elections). That also doesn’t mean pluralism is inherently antidemocratic, countries like the DPRK have multiple political parties with seats (even if the majority are held by the WPK), just that the will of the majority be upheld.
In capitalism, a tiny class of people controls the most essential means of production and distribution for society. The state represents their interests, and any parties that exist must represent them, or instead have strong grassroots support and work against the state (such as the Bolsheviks). Choosing between any number of capitalist parties doesn’t mean workers are going to be represented. No western country represents the will of the majority.
Capitalism is not some mysterious being, its a phenomenon and it is fundamentally incompatible with democracy. If the workplace was democratized then you would not have capitalism.
Lol you still believe what the Epstein Burger Reich tells you about other countries, that’s fucking embarassing
They literally had an election and it was a very close run thing we’re the US backed puppet nearly won.
But yeah, sure, it’s a dictatorship, whatever…
The elección was rigged and there even was mathematical evidence of it. That’s ignoring that Maduro had like 8 vote options all for himself.
Nice source. Damn, look at those funders. The Goldman Sachs philanthropy fund 🤣
https://www.dejusticia.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/MEMORIA-ECONOMICA-830131150-2024.pdf
Did you take any to look at the mathematical argument being done? Ad hominems are usually taken as bad faith in academics, and this is an académico argument.
It was a big a notice on the math world in the zone, no surprise it was being reported a lot. In any case, to satisfy your and hominem, here’s an article published in a mid-left Colombian newsletter https://www.elespectador.com/opinion/columnistas/hector-abad-faciolince/democracia-totalitaria-y-matematicas/
Even Terrence Tao reported on the issue: https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2024/08/02/what-are-the-odds-ii-the-venezuelan-presidential-election/
If you have mathematical arguments against Terrence’s, I would love to read them.
An ad-hominem is when I attack you or your character. I pointed out that your source is likely extremely biased.
And for the mathematical argument, the numbers he’s analysing don’t even match the reported votes in this other source that is highly critical of Maduro.
https://www.freiheit.org/venezuela-electoral-fraudster-president-venezuela
The reason for the discrepancy is the numbers are from when the CNE first oficially declared Maduro the winner of the elections. The numbers Terrence used are given by CNE’s president himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1v1y1_8AKY.
The source you provided uses the last numbers given by the CNE.
True… thankfully the glorious US bombed those undemocratic dictator fishing ships and invaded their country to righteously kidnap their undemocratically un-elected president and his heinous wife while killing people.
Now it gets to be a true democracy! Where their country starts going through liberalization and worsening social nets as their future is sold off to private sectors. Truly no longer a dictatorship.
2 bads don’t make 1 good.
Ah yes, a dictatorship where American puppets can b¡tch and moan about not letting the US ravage their countries can partake in elections.
Just stop consuming the Eagle Burger Institute slop my dude.
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When did I claim it wasn’t? Why do you all have an obsession of dimissing any criticism of Venezuela with a reference to US? I’m not even from there.
Just for factual correctness (don’t actually care about your opinion) - no Israeli election was cancelled. Bibi himself lost an election in 2020.
Ukraine being less democratic than Israel is not the gotcha its supporters expected
