Context: https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/45960248
Image created by @edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space
Got blocked from 196 for having an opinion that, although popular, did not align with the mods there so you know what? Fuck 196 and their baby mods. They’ve shown themselves to be little bitch snowflakes so let them be?
congrats to the new dbzero tankies btw
Literaly 19684 😔
Tbh I might bring it over here now that this is my main acc :3
“The evil tankies have taken over Lemmy and our instances are next”
The evil tankies: “Who even are you”
i seriously dont understand this hardcore anti “tankie”-ism on some parts of lemmy
i understand banning fascists when theyre spreading hateful, discriminatory or/and genocidal rhetoric but what “tankies” believe in is just another political ideology
almost as if they’re right about something and liberal moderators are scared of people finding out about the truth 🤔
I think it has nothing to do with the reasons they give, they just want to push western narratives of “righteousness”
I’ve been to political rooms in blahaj before and the discussed politics always boil down to anti-conservatism and anti-russian/chinese imperialism,
US imperialism? You’ll be called a tankie and told to stop acting like one to fit in
Israel genocide? You’re regressing the progressiveness of empowering jews, stop being overly antisemitic and using tankie sources
Some political news africa? Turn it about weather or not they support LGBTQ rights yet
Riots in south america? Their governments are oppressing them, also stop using tankie sources
There’s no way they can be this biased by coincidence, i’m not a tankie and i didn’t believe it at first but it’s true, Tankie do carry the burden of always being right!
I mean they just ban everyone who can critically read the media and understand basic geopolitics. Of course the remainder will be imperial core national chauvinists, that’s the default in their countries.
feds 🌈
If you want a point of view that isn’t in your bubble, what many people call “tankies” are in fact campists. By that I mean they commonly engage in authoritarian apologia for anyone purportedly “against the west”.
Iranian government brutalizing its own people? Butwutaboutdawest. Russia waging an imperialist war to absorb a neighbour? Butwutaboutnato. China threatening it’s neighbours? Butwutaboutdawest.
Nothing is ever their fault, any atrocity committed is either a false flag or misinformation because the only thing that matters is the team on the shirt, not any actual actions.
God forbid somebody can be against US imperialism and against Russian imperialism simultaneously, that’s much too nuanced.
Iranian government brutalizing its own people? Butwutaboutdawest.
That seems like a reasonable question to ask in order to not blindly adopt national chauvinists views. Shouldn’t you put developments in context to avoid getting swept up in a propaganda push?
Is this the “authoritarian apologia” you mentioned? Maybe you could give a citation of someone doing it so we can judge if they are being unreasonable.
Russia waging an imperialist war to absorb a neighbour? Butwutaboutnato.
Is it imperialist? Russia is doing this to expand profit seeking for its national-level monopolies or otherwise export capital? If so they are doing a bad job. Or maybe you don’t know what imperialism is in this context.
Regarding NATO, yes understanding its purpose and it’s member activities in the lead up to Russia invading Ukraine is actually a basic necessity for grasping why it happened at all and why it isn’t just revanchism or “imperialism”. Can you tell me what happened re: the Minsk agreements and why that is relevant? What were their contents?
China threatening it’s neighbours? Butwutaboutdawest.
I honestly don’t know what this is even about. Maybe Japan remilitarizing? It’s not hard to see why that would be concerning.
Nothing is ever their fault, any atrocity committed is either a false flag or misinformation because the only thing that matters is the team on the shirt, not any actual actions.
I have never seen someone saying anything remotely in the vein you are referencing that doesn’t also have criticism for those nations.
Perhaps you could give an example.
God forbid somebody can be against US imperialism and against Russian imperialism simultaneously, that’s much too nuanced.
One would have to start with an understanding of imperialism.
Shouldn’t you put developments in context to avoid getting swept up in a propaganda push?
That’s reasonable. I personally knew a lady who was beaten, imprisoned and starved for a week by the morality police for forgetting her hijab at home though. I struggle to think of a context that would justify that. This was many years ago though, as I understand it the morality police and their systematic human rights abuses were largely unofficially abolished in 2023 after mass protests.
The new wave of protests from this year were largely about inflation and cost of living, as far as I understand. You don’t get to thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries via effective crowd management.
Is it imperialist? Russia is doing this to expand profit seeking for its national-level monopolies or otherwise export capital? If so they are doing a bad job.
In order: yes, yes, yes, and also yes.
My opinion is that the primary motive of the original full-scale war, which they honestly thought they could get done in 3 days, was primarily to expand the workforce due to their crippled demographics, while simultaneously scoring an easy propaganda win domestically, giving a black eye to the US and EU, and get a hold of the rare earth minerals which were being prospected in eastern Ukraine at the time. It also didn’t hurt that before they bombed it, the area was relatively industrialized. Due to the incompetence of authoritarians in general and their inability to admit defeat (just look at the US in Iran today if you want a 2nd example), they are forced to keep going to save face no matter how pointless it is and how many people die.
In terms of motivation for Russia to continue their war long past the point of sunk costs, it probably also doesn’t help that because they’re fully in a war economy now, the end of the war will cause their economy to crash.
As a capstone to this: you don’t get a pass on imperialism just because you’re bad at it. If that was the case, Mussolini did nothing wrong.
I honestly don’t know what this is even about. Maybe Japan remilitarizing?
Take your pick. Saber rattling with Taiwan, encroaching on the Phillipine’s maritime waters, skirmishing with India and Pakistan on their border, and more.
I have never seen someone saying anything remotely in the vein you are referencing
I see every other day here references here to Ukrainian Nazis, Russian self-defense, etc. As an Eastern European who’s heard second-hand from refugees what’s going on in detail, I hope you can understand why that’d piss me off a little. So afraid of falling for US propaganda so they’re gobbling up Russian propaganda instead.
That’s reasonable. I personally knew a lady who was beaten, imprisoned and starved for a week by the morality police for forgetting her hijab at home though. I struggle to think of a context that would justify that.
Who said you have to justify it? Can you give a link and quote of the person who tried to make you?
This was many years ago though, as I understand it the morality police and their systematic human rights abuses were largely unofficially abolished in 2023 after mass protests.
Human rights discourse is fraught and almost always extremely national chauvinist, racist. But yes there has been a moderation.
The new wave of protests from this year were largely about inflation and cost of living, as far as I understand. You don’t get to thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries via effective crowd management.
I’m not sure what this means.
In order: yes, yes, yes, and also yes.
Then you are wrong.
My opinion is that the primary motive of the original war, which they honestly thought they could get done in 3 days, was primarily to expand the workforce due to their crippled demographics
Well yes not ending the war after that 3 days, which was an option for Ukraine but rejected by their masters, would have been the way for Ukraine to not be destroyed as a country.
Unfortunately for Ukrainians, they have been sacrificed and their country ostensibly sold on loan. Russia did indeed hope they would choose to not do that.
But who knows what you mean by “crippled demographics”, the demos were not particularly different in Donbas. Also why ignore the history leading up to it.
while simultaneously scoring an easy propaganda win domestically, giving a black eye to the US and EU, and get a hold of the rare earth minerals which were being prospected in eastern Ukraine at the time.
Actually none if that is imperialism except maybe the rare earths but that’s really not an inherently compelling argument on its own because all land has value, but not all invasions or annexations are imperialist. Russia was not exactly hurting due to lack of rare earths. They were hurting from being slowly isolated from European markets and from a war zone on their border. 8 years of neo-Nazis shelling ethnic Russians in Donbas after Euromaiden and you’re speculating it was rare earths?
It also didn’t hurt that before they bombed it, the area was relatively industrialized. Due to the incompetence of authoritarians in general and their inability to admit defeat (just look at the US in Iran today if you want a 2nd example), they are forced to keep going to save face no matter how pointless it is and how many people die.
Material forces constrain what “authoritarians” can do in this way, this is naive fantasy speak about how nation states operate. In reality, the refusal to do Minsk III is what set the stage, it is a recognition that a hard break was sought by Ukraine’s masters and no negotiation would be forthcoming that even had the pretense of another agreement to fail to meet the conditions of. The destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline is a good example of the break being sought. With Ukraine off the table for a political negotiation, that left only the establishment of an ongoing material dynamic: demilitarization by force, annexation of Donbas, surviving a new economic status quo.
Speaking of the new economic status quo, Russia fared well despite the various financial nuclear options leveraged against them. This was probably a surprise to their neoliberal bankers, but the base reality of the situation made sustaining it appealing.
Take your pick. Saber rattling with Taiwan,
That is stoked by the West and there are no new developments on that front that aren’t the US trying to escalate via moving yet more military assets there. Or China moving ships across waters right in between the mainland and the island slightly more often or with a slightly different exercise.
You call this making threats?
encroaching on the Phillipine’s maritime waters
I guess if we are being vague about what encroaching is okay. Building up and claiming various contiguous waters in the south china sea that would have otherwise been international waters and continuing to dispute long-disputed claims to some islands.
You call this making threats?
skirmishing with India and Pakistan on their border
Name them and let’s see what the big deal is. PS, is it threatening.
I see every other day here references here to Ukrainian Nazis, Russian self-defense, etc.
So what? This doesn’t respond to what I said at all.
As an Eastern European who’s heard second-hand from refugees what’s going on in detail, I hope you can understand why that’d piss me off a little.
I don’t care what pisses you off.
PS you skipped over 75% of what I said.
Ah, I thought so. Honestly don’t really have the time and energy to go back and forth with these massive walls of text, so I’ll just say that you’ve fallen hook line and sinker for Russian propaganda.
Ukrainian Nazis exist, just like there are Nazis in literally every country on the planet. They weren’t in control of anything, nor were they in any way in control of the government. The “ethnic Russians” were primarily Russian army troops out of uniform. There’s piles and piles of evidence about this. The low intensity war between Russia and Ukraine was to destabilize Ukraine to attempt to force it back into Russia’s sphere of influence against the will of the populace. If that isn’t imperialist, I don’t know what is.
I don’t know why I’m writing all this out, tbh. You’ve drunk the Kool aid. Anything “an enemy of the west” says is believed uncritically, no actual thinking, just regurgitation.
Have a wonderful day regardless, and I honestly hope you’re doing well.
God forbid somebody can be against US imperialism and against Russian imperialism simultaneously, that’s much too nuanced.
Cringe memes aside, anyone who can say with a straight face that poor little Putin was forced into this war against his will has obviously not been listening to the words coming out of his mouth.
This is just standard liberalism. They literally think communists are the same as Nazis. They think Hitler and Stalin allied to conquer Poland. They think the Soviets did a genocide, and they think Mao was some kind of demon whose goal was omnicide.
It’s spurned by liberal admins and mods usually. They can’t actually argue against us so they put their cognitive dissonance into an unhealthy place of self-soothing.
This actually isn’t unique to Lemmy at all it is the default reaction of committed liberals and liberals with thin skin. But when someone feels ownership of a place and like they’re losing legitimacy and control they can lash out.
It’s also important to understand that most people online discussing politics in these forums know basically nothing. They don’t read. They can’t critically engage with media. They don’t question their own biases when presented with people from other cultures. They certainly don’t actually do anything irl that would teach them visceral lessons. Trying to build an organization (not a career in a non-profit), a party, or even just feeding people. They might as well be 10 year olds for all the information contained in their political opinions. But they feel extremely entitled to their positions and wrap it up in their identities. If they are contradicted they feel personally attacked. If they think something despite having never investigated it, they announce it proudly with confidence and bully those who disagree. In short, humility runs counter to their socialization.
Finally, they’re used to punching right, or at least most of them are, and their rhetoric breaks down when they are instead forced to punch left. So they just start namecalling instead, banning, or just trolling, as it allows their egos to escape without much damage.
Luckily, we are looking at an echo chamber of people who automatically self-isolate and can’t organize anything. In the real world conversations are faster and more productive and building things and teaching is much easier, even with an audience that isn’t entirely friendly. Irl people usually can’t get away with acting like such babies.
196 has a very clear stance on tankies and other authoritarians.
but we’re not willing to allow somebody we so fundamentally disagree with to moderate our community.
I don’t know about you, but /c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone might have an authoritarian problem.
I’m actually hearing there are widespread humanitarian concerns about reports of ideological purges in the blahaj regime.
Been on Lemmy for almost 2 years, that instance and the people who joined it always felt “off” to me, I’m glad I recently set up a Lemmy instance of my own because that de-federate button will likely come in handy shortly.
The moment they openly defended keeping chasers around and sexually tokenizing trans women, I was out. Those lead to a compatibilist approach to integration via internalizing self-deprecation and worse.
The only question I have is why hasn’t kittenzrulz123 posted counter logs proving that they were not a genocide apologist.
The people making these accusations simply believe, without investigation, that China is committing genocide against Uyghurs. Any pushback on this is labeled genocide denial, in bad faith, because none of them have done even a mildly critical review if what has happened in Xinjiang nor the truly absurd US state department/intelligence connections of the small and dishonest group of think tank grifters pushing that particular narrative.
There are no logs to post that would satisfy them. They seek to slander and avoid thought, not discuss the topic of genocide with any level of seriousness. This is about their egos, not any actual concern about Uyghurs. I’ve never even met one of these people who can name an element of Uyghur culture. They’re just a rhetorical weapon to these national chauvinists.
Why haven’t you proven that you don’t deny the genocide of white South Africans?
Is it because it didn’t actually happen? Well there’s your answer.
Is this a reference to their comment about the treatment of the Uyghurs not having a consensus drawn as to whether or not it’s a genocide?
We know that some people eventually work past their “fuck tankies” stage because we did. Most of us used to believe the same things and for the same reasons, because we grew up under largely the same conditions.
Literally me fr, hell I used to be a lib if you could believe that :3
Actually I was never this insufferable.
Tankie is a disgruntled state of mind/interaction. A basic incompatibility.
Tankie is a thought-terminating cliché by liberals that can’t handle losing an argument and don’t know how else to punch left.
Why do they all wanna be aviator glasses horseshoe baldness pocket polo glass of whiskey Cold War dads so badly?
Funny how they all talk like 4chan chuds
Context: https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/45960248
Image created by @edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space
they gotta do SOMETHING now that their asset – tesseract – has been exposed. lol
could you elaborate here?
some turbolib made a Lemmy client that had a hardcoded blacklist of users and instances they considered to be communists
