• RiverRock@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      35
      ·
      2 days ago

      It gets messier when you remember that the current government of Ukraine is an ally of the Zionist entity and is providing air defense expertise to the perpetrators of the Gaza genocide, as well as participating in America’s aggression towards Iran. So while I understand the instinct, the unfortunate blunt reality is that these two sides are diametrically opposed.

        • davel@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          32
          ·
          edit-2
          2 days ago

          Literally no one denies that June 4, 1989 happened. What we disagree on is what happened.

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          30
          ·
          edit-2
          2 days ago

          It’s that winning combination of perfectly ignorant and perfectly smug about it that makes you people so odious. Enjoy being on the Nazi side of World War 3 I suppose. Just don’t say you weren’t warned, because you’re being warned right now.

            • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              18 hours ago

              Always interesting how Tankies treat Tibet like how Americans treat Natives

              We taught them how to read! That justifies it all! We went back on promises and treats and it’s their fault!! THEY DESERVED TO BE RE EDUCATED BY US

              • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                2 hours ago

                Do you ever read anything? Because you are obsessed with tankies and Hexbear to the point of being ridiculous and annoying.

                All you come across as is pro-fascist and pro-slavery because Tibet suffered genuine slavery before CPC came in.

                Just FYI, the Dalai Lama is a pedophile mentioned many times in the Epstein files.

              • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                11
                ·
                edit-2
                12 hours ago

                The re-education: “So yeah, it was actually bad of the theocracy to enslave you in literal chains, rape, torture and mutilate you for fun. The poverty and abuse you experienced was not a divine punishment for your sins in past lives like the monks told you, it was inflicted on you by a class-based system of exploitation. You have value in this life comrade, not just the next. Here are some shoes.”

                We went back on promises and treats and it’s their fault!!

                Genuinely baffled by what you could even be talking about here. Are you just free-associating?

                Anyway, it’s always interesting how dronies talk about feudal Tibet the way Confederate flag guys talk about the Antebellum South:

                It was such a charming traditional society where everything was just better! There was harmony, and everyone got along and everything Just Worked. But then the big commie government came along and tyrannically enforced their woke shit about “rights for serfs” and “girls learning to read”. We treated our nantsam like family, they were happy as slaves!

        • mrdown@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 hours ago

          Ukraine support for Israel preceed the invasion and Israel did nothing to help Ukraine in contrary voted against UN, resolution condrmning Russia aggression and have zero sanctions on it

          • NewDark@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 hour ago

            Basically all of Europe and the US supported Israel in some fashion pre-invasion. Skip the middle man and invade Israel instead then.

            • mrdown@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              42 minutes ago

              It is wrong when Ukraine does it , it is bad when russia does it , it is bad when the usa does it , it is bad when the rest of europe does it, it is bad when china does not use it’s economical power to restrict israel . I do not advocate for attacking any middle man especially not Ukraine who is also experiencing a war of aggression on Ukraine

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          30
          ·
          edit-2
          2 days ago

          Does that matter to the people the UKR military kills in Iran and helps kill in Palestine?

          But no, the Ukranian people have not had a choice in anything since having their government surgically replaced in 2014, or for that matter since having their government illegally dissolved in 1991.

          My point with this specific post, as an olive branch to people who may not be familiar with the communist position, is not “Ukraine bad” so much as “This is what eventually happens to every American ‘ally’ no matter what promises have been made to the contrary, and other countries had best take notice”.

          • audrbox@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            7 hours ago

            I don’t understand why tankies can’t make the logical step from “governments of the west don’t care about any peoples’ sovereignty (despite justifying their war efforts with claims that they do) because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power” to “no governments care about any peoples’ sovereignty because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power”

            • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              4 hours ago

              I actually did make that exact step as a teenage anarchist. Then I continued learning and realized this was an incorrect generalization, so I proceeded to update my understanding of the world in accordance with my dataset, something I have continued to do to this day and which has led me here. I followed a path of careful fact finding and reflection, and it turns out that political maturity is realizing the commies were correct.

              If you learn enough, stay humble enough, and pay close enough attention, eventually that’s what happens. You realize that, generally speaking, the really high-octane commies have the most lucid understanding of the world out of any group out there, and the only reason this wasn’t always obvious to you was because you live under a capitalist power structure which aggressively indoctrinates its populace from birth into believing that communism is No No Bad Bad.

              They have the most lucid and correct understanding of capitalism. They have the most lucid and correct understanding of imperialist extraction. They have the most lucid and correct understanding of western warmongering, global power dynamics, white supremacy, institutional racism and misogyny. That’s why they keep being proven right, about everything from US military actions to the fascism of the far right to the abusive nature of the so-called “moderate” liberal to the moral depravity of billionaires and the capitalist class.

              • audrbox@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                3 hours ago

                there’s no group which perceives the abusive dynamics of this civilization with a greater degree of intellectual clarity as a whole.

                …except for anarcho-communists who actually know what they’re talking about.

                I don’t disagree with this as a whole–Marxists are pretty much dead on with most of their analysis and see the world a hell of a lot more clearly than people still indoctrinated by capitalism. The problem is that Marxists-Leninists don’t go far enough when they diagnose the problems with capitalist society. They think it’s enough that power structures are seized by the proletariat and set up to align with their interests, as they believe (based on their analysis of how societies work) this will inherently cause the power structures to wither away over time. But that’s not how power works. You can’t fully reduce it down to class conflict.

                When a Marxist says “the history of societies is the history of class struggle”, imo there are two ways to read it: (a) Class and class struggle has made up the core of all societies’ structure and general existence for all history; or (b) There is nothing else to societies’ structure or general existence that is not reducible to class and class struggle

                I agree with (a). It’s supported by history and evidence. (b) inherently can’t be because it presupposes itself.

                From my own understanding of history, I think that a strictly ML understanding of how societies work misses a vitally important aspect of the role power plays. I could be wrong about that! But I’ve yet to see a ML explanation of why it’s necessarily wrong. And I think the reason for that it because ML theory presupposes itself. It wants to say (b). And in that sense, I think it’s actually a wildly un-humble framework: not only does it make the bold claim that all of history is just class, it forms the basis for governments that force this restrictive historical understanding on people and dismiss any other framework as liberal or reactionary.

                As the article claims about MLs, there are plenty of anarchists who don’t know what they’re talking about–who have a really shallow understanding of power or are secretly just liberals. But anarcho-communism is thus far the only framework I’ve found that addresses all of the historical dynamics and structures identified by Marx and Marxists while still being humble enough to admit that it doesn’t necessarily hold all the right answers and that it’s not the only valid framework out there.

              • audrbox@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                4 hours ago

                Is it? Or are y’all just so absorbed in your faux-scientific application of context-dependent dynamics to every aspect of how you think the world works that you’ve forgotten basic ideas like “people tend to want to hold onto power” and “people in power see threats to power as threats on their lives and will therefore do all they can to protect it”?

          • Cypher@aussie.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            2 days ago

            Yes American promises are why Russia invaded despite being signatories to a treaty guaranteeing Ukrainian sovereignty.

              • Cypher@aussie.zone
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                22 hours ago

                Excuses are great, still breaks a treaty.

                That sort of thing has a real cost in geopolitics.

                • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  20 hours ago

                  Condescension aside, saying that in favor of the faction that kicked this off by breaking both Minsk Agreements is some crazy irony

                  Anyway why did Russia cross the border, according to you?

                  • Cypher@aussie.zone
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    ·
                    20 hours ago

                    Ukraine didn’t break the Minsk agreements and no reputable source claims they did.

                    Russia invaded Ukraine because they fear neighbouring states that aren’t under Russia’s boot.

                    If you were a communist you’d recognise that Russia is a totalitarian Oligarchy and a terrible place for the proletariat.

        • ghost_laptop@lemmy.mlM
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          20
          ·
          2 days ago

          ahh, yes, what else could they do when they’re being invaded other than committing genocide. poor ukronazis!

          • NewDark@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 days ago

            OK. So they should let Russia run their tanks through their towns and take over? What’s the take here?

            • zedcell@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              17
              ·
              edit-2
              2 days ago

              They could have made a peace settlement a month in to the war in March 2022, given the DPR and LPR independence and not had to deal with anymore Russian invasions. But instead they listened to people like Boris Johnson enthusiastically telling them to fight to the last Ukrainian because we’ll keep giving you weapons.

            • ghost_laptop@lemmy.mlM
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              ·
              2 days ago

              i dunno you could try and fight against the invasion or whatever cia fairy tale you tell yourself to believe you’re not a nazi yet without supporting a literal nazi state? oh yeah, the ukronazis are also fascist bastards so that’s what they want.