That’s underselling how racist Churchill was towards Indians. “Beastly people with a beastly religion”.
Though, to be fair, he was also racist towards african peoples, jewish people, arab people, the Chinese and the Irish.
Churchill’s racism has its own Wikipedia page! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Winston_Churchill
And Australia’s First Nations peoples
.
Don’t ask Churchill about his undue sympathy toward captured Nazi soldiers either
The Brits committed horrific atrocities in India. They pillaged the country and engineered multiple famines.
I recommend the Anarchy by William Darlymple which covers the rise of the British East India company.
They were the Zionists of the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries, They wrecked the areas they colonised leaving lasting wars and instability up to the present day.
I mean, Churchill was a massive racist. The famine in India killed approx. 2.1 million people.
But Zedong’s policies led to a famine that killed approx. 36 million peoole, literally 10-15 times worse. It’s nice that he grew his own veggies I guess but fuck me that’s an insane failure of policy. If you managed to fuck up so bad you end up killing 36 million, I think it’s fair to say you deserved the title of monster.
The famine in India was very much manmade and could have been greatly mitigated if Britain desired, much like the Irish Genocide. The famine in China absolutely didn’t result in the deaths of 36 million, that’s Black Book of Bullshit numbers and it was sadly a common occurrence well before Mao was in power, which is why they were trying to get rid of pests in the first place: food security was a huge issue, one that has thankfully been solved since the party acknowledged the experts and corrected course.
As expected, the toll of Churchill’s genocide is pushed down as far down as you can while it’s zillions and bajillions whenever the commies are to blame. It’s transparent as hell.
Britain did attempt to mitigate it, but natural disasters prevented them from doing so effectively as they took out the rail lines to Bengal. Ultimately the famine lasted 1-2 years.
But mate, not even China (and the CCP) denies that Zedong primarily fucked up here (translated from http://www.gov.cn/test/2008-06/23/content_1024934_2.htm):
However, due to insufficient experience in socialist construction and insufficient understanding of the laws of economic development and the basic conditions of China’s economy, and more importantly, due to Comrade Mao Zedong and many leading comrades at the central and local levels, who became complacent and eager for quick results in the face of victory, and exaggerated the role of subjective will and effort, they rashly launched the “Great Leap Forward” and the rural people’s commune movement without serious investigation, research, or pilot projects. This led to a serious prevalence of Leftist errors, characterized by high targets, blind command, exaggeration, and a “communist style.” From the end of 1958 to the early stages of the Lushan meeting of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee in July 1959, Comrade Mao Zedong and the Party Central Committee diligently led the entire Party in correcting the errors that had already been recognized. However, in the later stages of the Lushan Conference, Comrade Mao Zedong mistakenly launched a criticism of Comrade Peng Dehuai and subsequently launched a Party-wide “anti-Rightist” struggle. The resolution of the Eighth Plenary Session of the Eighth Central Committee regarding the so-called “anti-Party clique of Peng Dehuai, Huang Kecheng, Zhang Wentian, and Zhou Xiaozhou” was completely wrong. Politically, this struggle severely damaged democratic life within the Party, from the Central Committee down to the grassroots. Economically, it interrupted the process of correcting Leftist errors, prolonging their existence. Primarily due to the mistakes of the “Great Leap Forward” and the “anti-Rightist” campaign, coupled with natural disasters and the Soviet government’s treacherous breach of contract, my country’s national economy suffered severe difficulties from 1959 to 1961, causing significant losses to the country and the people.
And you may call 36 million bullshit, but that is the historical consensus. We know from official sources that the population in 1961 is 15 million lower than in 1959, but that difference also assumes no population growth, suggesting a much higher death toll as the Chinese population was growing very quickly at the time. And that’s the Chinese estimating it:
- Yu is an independent Chinese historian and a former instructor at the Central Party School of the Chinese Communist Party, estimated that 55 million people died due to the famine. His conclusion was based on two decades of archival research.
- Chen, a former senior Chinese official and a top advisor to former CCP General Secretary Zhao Ziyang, stated that 43 million people died due to the famine.
- Liao, former Vice Director of the History Research Unit of the CCP, reported 40 million “unnatural” deaths due to the famine.
- Yang, Xinhua News Agency senior journalist and author of Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958–1962, concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that “China’s total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million.” In response, historian Cormac Ó Gráda wrote that the results of a retrospective fertility survey “make the case for a total [death toll] much lower—perhaps ten million lower—than that proposed by Yang”.
- Cao Shuji, Distinguished Professor at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, estimated the death toll at 32.5 million.
- Peng Xizhe, Professor of Population and Development at Fudan University, estimated 23 million excess deaths during the famine.
- Li, former Minister of the National Bureau of Statistics of China, estimated 22 million deaths. His estimate was based on the 27 million deaths estimated by Ansley J. Coale, and the 17 million deaths estimated by Jiang Zhenghua (蒋正华).
It’s next to impossible to get an exact number because the statistics were being manipulated by local governments at the time to look less bad. There’s enough reason to believe Zedong didn’t know the full extent of the famine (he seemed to believe it was ~5 million), because he too was fed bullshit from his underlings. So you may call it “Black book of bullshit” but I’m basing myself on sources from China, of people and institutions connected to the CCP.
Britain didnt attempt to mitigate shit in india. They kept taking it out. They looted the entire country. Ask the Irish how much Britain mitigated their assaults.
Its absolutely insane you believe that.
There’s literally an entire section on relief efforts on Wikipedia, with plentiful sources (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943). It also clearly explains the aid wasn’t enough and inadequately delivered, meaning it wasn’t effective (especially initially). But it’s not true that they did nothing at all.
Im sure Israel will tell you they delivered aid as well lol
I never said Mao didn’t have his share of blame, but to claim he’s a monster responsible for unspeakable misery not a paragraph after downplaying Churchill’s genocide is pretty rich. The Great Famine was gonna happen regardless, it was just made worse by the attempts to prevent it, but the party immediately intensified efforts to make sure it never happened again. Can you say the same about British rule in India?
You literally just downplayed the death toll of the Great Famine. And Churchill was a racist dick, but he didn’t purposefully genocide the Indians. He didn’t give much of a shit, but relief efforts were sent and ultimately did arrive. It was horrible nonetheless, no doubt about that, but it pales in comparison to what happened in China.
Correction: Britain halfheartedly tried to mitigate the famine that was caused by their wartime policies, their land grabbing practices and wage practices. Bengal exported food to Sri Lanka in the initial months of the famine, the same playbook as with the Irish famine. When Britain finally delivered aid, they tried to make it some market scheme, with loans, rice injections into the market and rice payment for hard labor. Harebrained. The Brits prioritized the war in the region over effective famine relief. That’s what Churchill did wrong.
Regarding Mao: The intent of most of his policies was to improve harvests. Of course, if you persecute your intellectuals, use the teachings of an absolute fucking moron as the basis of your policies and brand every failure to deliver as the work of evil rightists and saboteurs, you’re going to kill a shit ton of people. Maybe a skilled war lord, he was utterly incompetent when it came to managing this famine. And so was the entire state apparatus.
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Thanks for the interesting Chairman Mao write up, Chairman Meow.
It killed far more - estimates go between 6 to 10 million. 2 million was the low end British estimate to make it seem not as bad.
Can you source that claim? The estimates I can find are between 0.8 and 3.8 million. There’s outliers going up to 5-6, but I don’t know where your 10 million comes from.
Where do your claims come from?
They’re clearly sourced on Wikipedia. Your turn.
Oh ok. Mine are also clearly sourced in the Liberal Holy Scripture (Wikipedia) then.
So you have no sources, just vacuous claims.
Don’t waste people’s time then.
Lol. You fucking hypocrite.
a condescending dipshit. really shows that many accusations are just confessions.
Fuck the British
Churchill was a racist piece of shit.
So are people who disparage entire nationalities for the actions of a few.
I’ve never done anything to you or India; So can you explain to me why I should get fucked?
It was more than “a few”. You can get fucked for downplaying the scale of the atrocities the british committed. The entire european economy is based on the exploitation of the global south. You can get fucked for tone-policing the anger that causes.
Ah gotcha, so a newborn in the local hospital is responsible for the atrocities committed by a man who died 60 years ago, seems logical.
I’m not downplaying anything, I’m pointing to the fact that your anger is misdirected. There are many British people that have had absolutely no say or action in any of what you’ve stated, yet you claim they should get fucked for no reason other than where they’re born.
He is 100% responsible for the actions of his ancestors because he benefits from it. If Indians have to bear the fruits of the sufferings of their ancestors, so do the British.
Return all the money and artifacts, adjusted to current valuations. Apologise in UN. Execute all your monarchy in public. Then we will start to get even.
There are many British people that have had absolutely no say or action in any of what you’ve stated, yet you claim they should get fucked for no reason other than where they’re born.
I didn’t see anyone rejecting the spoils of the plunder.
This is the same bullshit argument that is being made by the British right now about Gaza - being complicit the whole time and then trying to PR your way out of it by all of a sudden planning to declare Palestine a state.
Ah so thats your basis for responsibility, not action, but circumstances.
What if that British newborn was born to Indian parents? are they now both responsible and a victim of their own doing?
I didn’t see anyone rejecting the spoils of plunder
There are plenty here who agree with you, unfortunately they’re too busy trying to survive the same persecutions you’re angry at them for supposedly perpetrating. The working class in the UK have absolutely no say in any of what you’re campaigning about; but your narrative of “fuck British people because they were born British” does nothing but alienate them from your cause.
It becomes a case of “damned if I do, damned if I don’t”
Yes, the same working class who was not starved to death because they got food from a famine struck India. They could have easily denied eating the food and let their children starve, be the bigger person.
Ethics have never mattered to the British (and most of the world to be fair) when it benefits them.
I can’t speak for the actions of people that died a century before I existed of course, but I can near enough guarantee that neither I, nor any of my fellow working class citizens have caused any famines in India. (I say near enough; because for all I know there could be some obscure despot running around who just so happens to be from a working class village in Scotland or some shit).
I wholeheartedly agree with the last statement. It is a human condition ultimately; we’re seeing the same situation out in the states, where a lot of immigrant families voted in favour of tighter immigration (the “fuck you I got mine” mentality). I suppose you could argue it’s due to Americanisation of the people who have migrated, but to me it just highlights the fact that morality isn’t based on nationality. I believe brandishing any nationality/ethnicity or race as anything other than human only perpetuates ‘us and them’ mentalities, and I believe it’s by design.
Until the world wakes up and realises it’s not north Vs south or east Vs west; but rather rich Vs poor, nothing will change.
Yeah your right, Scotland, Ireland and Wales had no say, not fuck Britain, fuck England
Currently alive English people are responsible for not prosecuting Tony Blair after the Chilcot Report. Tony Blair is still alive. Get on it.
You gonna pretend your entire life hasn’t been built on a framework that raped 90% of the planet?
The irony of an Aussie saying this is palpable.
When are you going to stop the rampant and ongoing persecution of the aboriginal population and the intentional erosion of their way of life?
There’s nothing I can do about my ancestors’ actions; but you have a real opportunity to enact the change you feel our ancestors should have done at home.
Actually doing quite a lot in my capacity. Sovreignty was never ceded.
What are you doing to press for the return of cultural items illegally acquired and held in the UK?
I mean you’re demanding i do my bit to dismantle a system (which I actually very definitively did in a recent vote), surely you can write the British museum a nasty letter.
Or did it simply never occur to you?
I’m glad to hear it. I am doing everything in my capacity to help with the repatriation of the empire’s illegally pillaged artifacts.
Admittedly that’s not a great deal currently though, most of my spare time is spent helping out at the local food bank, as there’s a bit of a malnourishment crisis going on in the UK ATM (as I’m sure there is most places tbh. The disparity between rich and poor seems to have grown exponentially since covid and the job market is only compounding the issue).
You guys should have ceded from the crown eons ago; if I had the choice I certainly would. You won’t find much love for the monarchy among the working class in Britain.
We got ourselves an old fashioned nice off! Keep it going!
Virtues have been signaled. Two saints enter, one lemming leaves.
Trying, but the monarchist cucks keep drowning out the voices of those of us who want out.
Sadly I suspect the US implosion means more and more are going to cling to mummy britain to save us defensewise despite the fact that historically does not work out so well for us…
Fuck the british because they sure as hell haven’t taken responsability for their crimes and are sure as hell not doing anything at all to make up for them, in fact they keep benefitting from past plunders through financial institutions, y’all continue to profit of the compound interest of colonial plunder and expect to be forgiven because you are one generation removed from the killing?
Should israelis be forgiven after doing an ethnic cleansing of palestinians because they’re one generation removed from the dirt?
Why was china hit with a famine again?
Lysenkoism, Anti-intellectualism and other terrible terrible policies. But hey, Mao ate veggies uwu
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Lysenkoism had been the official scientific stance on evolution in China from 1946 to 1956. Sounds like he had fuck all to do with China, sure.
Several of the techniques employed on collectivized farms, such as sextupling the density of seeds or deep plowing, were solely based on Lysenkoist teaching and had a fatal impact on yields.
Literally due natural disasters because China was not developed enough to face them. China had famines every other year throughout all history before the communists won but of course the narrative is that communism is when famine.
And the great famine was exacerbated by the campaign to eliminate the “four pests”, but the experts at the time were divided on the issue, and the party corrected course as soon as they saw other pests such as locusts increase and on the advice of other experts. They weren’t just handing down nonsense orders willy nilly, they were desperately experimenting on the fly to make sure that famine stopped being an issue, and it did relatively soon.
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Forced collectivisation of an entirely agrarian economy.
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Industrial policy that encouraged small scale iron smelting in homemade furnaces causing huge environmental damage.
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Agricultural policy that ordered the extermination of sparrows who then couldn’t keep insect populations down causing catastrophic damage to crops.
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Brutally cracked down on any dissenting voices, including scientists who happened to point out the potential flaws in Maos plan
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Contrary to OPs post, covering up the mistakes afterward and blaming outside influences and counter-revolutionaries rather than the failure of central policy.
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Why was India?
Because Brits exploited the resources. For eg in Bengal famine Brits were exporting rice, whereas Indian people were starving and other reasons were high tax imposition and debt trap on farmers. The forced Indigo farming in 1/4 of the farm made the soil less cultivable for the next time. Many reasons.
According to a Wikipedia article, “After the launch of Reform and opening up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Right Deviation Struggle, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split.”
The official statement is here, but I don’t read Chinese.
Ah. Google Translate comes through. I think the relevant part is where they say (machine translated): “Mainly due to the mistakes of the “Great Leap Forward” and the “Anti-Rightist Movement”, coupled with natural disasters at the time and the Soviet government’s treacherous breach of the contract, my country’s national economy encountered serious difficulties from 1959 to 1961, and the country and the people suffered heavy losses.”
No one knows and probably never will. It was not a great leap forward for China that’s for sure
Some actual Churchill quotes. This is who repeatedly gets voted the “Greatest Briton” by the British people.
- “It is, thank heaven, difficult if not impossible for the modern European to fully appreciate the force which fanaticism exercises among an ignorant, warlike and Oriental population. Several generations have elapsed since the nations of the West have drawn the sword in religious controversy, and the evil memories of the gloomy past have soon faded in the strong, clear light of Rationalism and human sympathy. Indeed it is evident that Christianity, however degraded and distorted by cruelty and intolerance, must always exert a modifying influence on men’s passions, and protect them from the more violent forms of fanatical fever, as we are protected from smallpox by vaccination.”
- “I think we shall have to take the Chinese in hand and regulate them. I believe that as civilized nations become more powerful they will get more ruthless, and the time will come when the world will impatiently bear the existence of great barbaric nations who may at any time arm themselves and menace civilized nations. I believe in the ultimate partition of China — I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph.”
- “I propose that 100,000 degenerate Britons should be forcibly sterilized and others put in labour camps to halt the decline of the British race.”
- “I think a curse should rest on me — because I love this war. I know it’s smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment — and yet — I can’t help it — I enjoy every second of it.”
- “One might as well legalise sodomy as recognise the Bolsheviks.”
- “I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes.”
- “There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others.”
- “One may dislike Hitler’s system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations.”
- “I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.”
- “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.”
“There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others.”
almost indistinguishable from Hitler
Never read Churchill essays on the good and bad jews.
If only Churchill had grown vegetables and issued meaningless scolds to his own administration, he would have been a true working class hero
Wowie, so you post empire-sanctioned liberal propaganda on a meme about the propaganda of liberal media. Wow so big brain!
There is literally no link I could have found that would not have triggered your criticism. There is literally no Western media outlet that would not be labeled “empire-sanctioned” by you.
There is literally no Western media outlet that would not be labeled “empire-sanctioned” by you.
Right
What sources would you consider trustworthy?
Anything that doesn’t fall under the empire umbrella, as was clear:
So theOnion.com is trust worthy?
Kidding aside, I was hoping you could give some specific examples.
At least you know you’re being lied to with the onion
So if I make an official-looking website on my home server, slap a fancy sounding domain on it, and send it to you, you’ll trust it?
Answer the question. You answered the opposite question of “what won’t you trust?”
And if you don’t have an answer, it’s okay to say you need to reconsider what your criteria are. That’s okay. That’s how we figure things out
Internet memes
The PBS articles only source seems to be the American government, that seems very much “empire sanctioned”.
The other one has a little more diversity, it cites the American government, national defense think tank analysts, and a company who’s primary customer seems to be the American government.
Would you trust an article exclusively citing oil companies, their associated think tanks, and companies that they are closely linked with money-wise?
On a tour in late September sponsored by Beijing, the 22 journalists from 17 countries visited bazaars [in Xinjiang] and chatted with residents over dates and watermelon slices. They later told state media they were impressed with the bustling economy, described the region as “full of cultural, religious and ethnic diversity,” and denounced what they said were lies by Western media.
The trip is an example of what Washington sees as Beijing’s growing efforts to reshape the global narrative on China. It’s spending billions of dollars annually to do so.
In a first-of-its-kind report, the State Department last week laid out Beijing’s tactics and techniques for molding public opinion, such as buying content, creating fake personas to spread its message and using repression to quash unfavorable accounts.
You are deeply unserious. Even the lack of evidence is clandestine by your thinking.
Pentagon ran secret anti-vax campaign to undermine China during pandemic
The U.S. military launched a clandestine program amid the COVID crisis to discredit China’s Sinovac inoculation – payback for Beijing’s efforts to blame Washington for the pandemic. One target: the Filipino public. Health experts say the gambit was indefensible and put innocent lives at risk.
Does this threaten “international security”, liberal?
The anti-vax campaign wasn’t all that clandestine, though. It might have initially been, but Trump sure let the cat out of the bag with his nonsense.
So what is a clandestine propaganda campaign if not this kind of shit:
Oh no, I agree, it was definitely aimed at the Chinese vaccine at first, but then it turned broadly anti-vax because Trump is too incompetent to keep private things private.
Okay. So you see what I’m saying then. Imperialists do this stuff.
Okay. So you see what I’m saying then. Imperialists do this stuff.
Except what you have linked was already US State department propaganda
Could you please define imperialism in anywhere between 20 and 1000 words?
Imperialism is when a country (or any political group, I guess) pushes their worldview onto others. That’s without looking anything up so I may have forgotten some aspect.
…
Okay, I looked it up. I agree with the definition I found that says it’s more about exerting power than just “worldview”. That seems like a better definition.
? imperialism is when a country or group exerts power?
Yes? I don’t know where this thread is going.
This thread is going towards the conclusion that you’ve adopted a definition of imperialism that is so broad as to be unworkable, because it treats all political violence as being the same thing.
What a bizarre definition. Apparently any activist group is an empire.
House passes $1.6 billion to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas
Somehow it’s a crime when Russia does it to us, but good ‘information ops’ when we want to discredit Beijing’s Belt & Road initiatives worldwide
Hey I know you’re getting a bunch of responses so I don’t want to be unhelpful and pile on, but I am curious if you actually dispute either of the claims this meme makes (Churchill blaming the famine on India, Mao personally taking steps to cut his consumption during a famine and being critical of his own policy). Because if you don’t think it’s wrong I’m not sure why you are posting this response. The Chinese don’t care if you vote for Churchill or Mao, neither are even candidates for election in the United States. This could not be less about what you’ve posted.
China, however, has taken a more cautious, nuanced approach. Beijing sees little advantage in supporting one presidential candidate over the other, intelligence analysts say. Instead, China’s disinformation efforts focus on campaign issues particularly important to Beijing
Oh no if we can trust unnamed “intelligence analysts”, you know, probably the same people who manufactured russiagate, spend billions on foreign desinformation campaigns and are famous for toppling democratically elected officials around the world, then China is accused of meddling in the elections! Allegedly, they do it by providing, well… impartial and relevant information without favoring any candidate. But they cunningly limit their evil public relations campaign to issues pertaining to their own country, which is… bad for some reason.
And even more wicked: by pretending to be Americans, they evade the natural American defense mechanism against r̶e̶a̶s̶o̶n̶ outside influence: racism. How will we know to ignore their logic and their pleas for peace and cooperation, if we don’t know their skin color?! Heavens! If this is allowed to continue, the rampant preparations for a nuclear apocalypse inducing war against China might continue to accelerate in a somewhat less feverish frenzy! Better crank internet cencorship up to eleven stat, that’s the only way to protect democracy. /s
Seems like a boring rerun of russiagate which was just declassified as an op.
Lmaoooooooo
🤡
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People very much do not think churchill was a saint, he was precisely the monster required at the time during WWII
It’s actually fucking insane Churchill and his policies killed 4 million Indians while he was in office and you call it “precisely the monster required at the time” fuck if you think so lowly of brown people I guess Hitler was the monster required for the time too, he broke the western European colonial empires to the point their empires crumbled not long after. So 6 million Jews, makes Hitler the most evil man on earth but 4+ million south Asians dying under Churchills watch is “precisely the monster required for the time” you fucking dunce
Literally referring to his lionisation during wwii as anyone who had the barest conception of history would grasp.
Yes, everybody understands that was your perspective. You just happened to share that perspective on a post talking about a man-made famine in India. So, uh, you failed at context.
Churchill repeatedly gets voted the greatest briton of all time by the British people.
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Yes? When do you think liberalism came to be?
40.5s /s
Grok, is this true?
