Just because Elon is above the law doesn’t mean you are, even if you’re in a Tesla. Good luck.
Even if you’re just minding your business when a sleeping pilled-out middle manager from Subway corporate plows into your 98 Corolla in their Tesla at 100 mph leaving your family without a father and source of income because a billionaire nazi who’s constantly off his nut on ketamine decided rules are stupid and don’t apply to him and the entire societal structure designed to prevent this from happening has been hollowed out by incompetent bigots who absolutely rate high on the sociopath scale because nazi media has ensnared 51% of the population and now you dead.
When a self driving car breaks the law, the CEO should get the demerit points on their own licence, and if they lose their licence, the cars can’t drive anymore.
That would be funny but better yet, the entire line of cars gets the feature deleted from them and customers are reimbursed the entire value of the car plus interest in exchange for having risked their lives testing an unstable and dangerous vehicle.
Since it seems to be unsafe at any speed, why not.
Because now it can hurt others going even faster
you, too, can die at the hands of AI and become forever enshrined as algorithmic data to help improve Tesla’s subscription services sales to the very wealthy and hostile
which comes with higher speeds and more frequent lane changes
Go kiss a concrete pillar, ya duds
I drive a Tesla. I live in Connecticut, speed limits are set very low and are ignored by just about everybody Including police, as long as you’re not driving recklessly.
The problem with the latest FSD versions is they take precise speed control out of the driver’s hands. In previous versions, you could manually set a maximum speed. Now you cannot, you only pick one of these driving profiles.
So for example if I’m driving on a 55 mph highway, and all the other cars are doing 75 mph, I have to pick the ‘Hurry’ profile which also hangs out in the left lane and makes a lot of lane changes and faster acceleration/braking. I would much rather drive standard style but with higher speed, but that isn’t an option.
Why use FSD though if you would still need to pay attention and be ready to take over the car? I understand cruise control to a degree but the other stuff I dont see how its helpful to rely on a computer that can malfunction at any moment.
All these L2 systems (not just Tesla’s) really do lower the cognitive load and makes things easier, even if you still have to pay attention.
Remember when you were learning to drive and making sure you did everything right took up a lot of your cognitive ability while driving, maybe you couldn’t even carry on a conversation and drive, and as you got more experienced, a lot of it became second nature, and the load on driving became less?
Well that load is still there, it’s just less, and this can lower it further even if you are still having to pay attention.
I’m saying the problem is that it lowers the mental load, which lowers reaction timing. You might be able to counter that by paying attention as much with FSD as without, but then you are gaining nothing but extra risk.
Is there a reason you want to reduce the mental load as much as possible? If I were driving 4+hours per day its possible I might be more likely to agree with you but thats just a guess.
Lowering the mental load of having to maintain speed and lane does not mean you’re not paying attention and able to take over.
It means you have more time to be aware of what’s going on around you, while still paying attention to what it’s handling for you.
Saying you gain nothing but risk because you still pay attention just isn’t true. There is still a gain, even with any added risk.
Stop and go traffic, and long drives it really helps.
When you say it helps, is this just in general mental well being from less stress from driving? Is it purely convenience? I personally dont find driving to be stressful in my life but again I dont have a long commute.
I do drive a manual in rush hour periodically, I dont see how FSD helps there though? I’d still need to be ready to hit the brake if the car malfunctions wouldnt I?
Ya, mental well being and less stress sounds about right. Going for a couple hour drive and using it for even a part of it can leave me feeling better off when I get to my destination.
It’s not something I always turn on for entire trips either, I still do a mix of both, but lets say I’m on a 2hour trip and I’ve been driving regularly for 30 minutes and I’m starting to feel it, I can turn it on and there’s just this instant noticeable reduction, but then maybe there’s some construction or something ahead where I want to take over, so I take over and then drive the next 30 minutes myself again.
The best analogy is probably just regular cruise control if you’ve ever used it. You still gotta pay attention and be ready to alter your speed, but you’re not suddenly forgetting about speed while it’s on, but you’re also not getting worn down by having to maintain it manually.
For example - Feeling frustrated or annoyed by that car in front of you that’s constantly slowing down so you always have to be modulating your speed, but you can’t necessarily pass? Well it can just follow it and modulate it for you, well I can assure you, it’s less annoying when you don’t have to manage that yourself.
You always need to be ready to brake or press the accelerator depending on the situation, and I move my foot around depending on the situation. Just driving on the open highway, I’ll be ready for the accelerator in case of any phantom braking, coming up to a light with another vehicle in front of me, I’ll move it to the brake until it’s clear the car is braking at my comfort level. It’s all situational, and if you’re paying attention like you’re supposed to be, it’ll just be natural on which one you are prepared for.
Stop and go traffic it’s just making sure it does actually stop as it inches forward a few feet and needs to come to a stop again but without needing to actually manage it myself.
As somebody who has a more basic car with just adaptive cruise control, the peace of mind makes driving less exhausting. I think there’s a considerable number of accidents caused by driver fatigue, such as rear-ending due to reduced reaction speed. A simple driver assistance technology like adaptive cruise control can prevent an accident like that, and advanced front collision warnings can stop cars like mine from speeds up to 100 km/h.
so ppl can get even more reliant on technology and would be downright dangerous behind the wheel of an older vehicle? awesome…
Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Significantly changed. Even in the last few months. I would encourage you to go do a test drive. Night and day from the type of experience you have.
The driver monitoring now uses a camera. If you are looking at the road, it doesn’t ask you to jerk the wheel at all.
Speed control is much more organic and considers turns, hills, etc. The machine vision on the cameras is different as well, it uses a processing technique called occupancy networks to produce 3D data out of the 2D camera images.The one concern is you list speed in km, the current full self-driving software is not available in all countries and may not be available in yours, which might mean if you do a test drive you are still on the same very basic system you had before.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then
There’s the disconnect.
You’re starting cold. Like, you just woke up from a nap, to find you’re on the highway and have to take over. Then maybe it takes 20-40 seconds.
That’s not the case for a Tesla driver. The driver is required (and it’s enforced by attention monitoring) to stay situationally engaged.
Serious question- have you ever actually USED FSD? In a five minute test drive, or ideally for a long car trip? I believe that you are speaking from a position of ignorance, IE you are speaking factually about something you aren’t familiar with the facts of.
The VERY FIRST TIME I drove a Tesla, I turned Autopilot (that’s what there was back then) on and off several times in the space of a drive. There was no 40 second anything.
Spyware on wheels won’t let me break the law
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not saying this as an insult, I am simply stating a fact that you are completely and totally mistaken.
Do you live in an alternate reality where Tesla employees didn’t get caught sharing camera footage from inside peoples garages and stuff just because they thought it was funny?
That was a very early version of their system, once that happened they put strong controls in place for the storage of video and it’s now very easy to control what if any video and audio the car reports back to Tesla.
And when, ever in its history, has Tesla given you a reason to believe they aren’t just outright lying?
Every time my car gets an update and FSD gets better. Every time I get in my car and hit the FSD button.
Serious question- have you ever driven a Tesla? And if so for how long?
Yea it was fine but the driver assist wasn’t any better than my Honda and the turn signals were awful. I drove it for a few hours.
Intentionally breaking laws sounds like something that should be prosecuted.
It will always fall on the driver of the vehicle, as it should. I don’t care how self driving your car is, it has a steering wheel, an accelerator pedal, and a brake pedal and in the driver seat YOU are responsible with how you operate your vehicle. If u decide to trust a self driving feature that’s YOUR mistake. I would love to blame all these crashes on Tesla but the reality is that all these drivers aids and self driving cars having accidents is proof that you should be the one in control of your own vehicle. No crying about how the automotive nannies didn’t stop you from crashing the vehicle your driving, take responsibility. Don’t like it? Don’t trust the “self driving” nonsense (read: glorified advanced cruise control). Now one thing I don’t agree with is advertising as self driving, and I strongly believe self driving vehicles in public roadways should be ILLEGAL!
Except the problem here is Tesla is lying about a product to encourage people to use it illegally and unsafely. At some point there’s extra deaths to blame solely on tesla’s lies.
Can you point to one of those lies? Because every time I push the FSD button it says ‘keep hands on the wheel be prepared to take over at any time’ right there on the screen.
Full Self Driving, the name of the feature is literally a lie. Its used all over in the marketing for the vehicle. Most car companies call comparable features “driving assistance” or “lane control” etc.
There is a significant difference between lane control and FSD. Lane control just keeps you in the lane so you don’t have to actively steer. FSD actually drives the car, changes lanes, makes turns, stops for traffic lights and stop signs, navigates intersections, etc. With the current v14, you can get in your car, type in a destination, and then not steer or push the pedals at all and the car will take you to a parking space at your destination. Lane control does not do that. I’m not aware of any other company that does that.
Tesla has the highest accident rate per driver for a reason. FSD has routinely plowed into children, emergency vehicles etc. Theres a number of lawsuits against them around the world.
Other companies have implemented these more limited systems (that often include better sensors such as lidar) not because they can’t do it but rather because they are more cautious about brazenly lying to people about the capabilities of their system.
FSD has routinely plowed into children, emergency vehicles etc.
You are using this word ‘routinely’, but I do not think that it means what you think it means.
Can you give me, say, 10 incidents of this? Of a Tesla confirmed to be on FSD driving full speed into a child, emergency vehicle, etc?
FSD used to ‘routinely’ be overly cautious and slow down when not necessary, but I don’t think it’s driving into things.
I’d also point out the driver remains responsible for the car and an eye movement camera prevents distracted driving, but I digress.
Other companies have implemented these more limited systems (that often include better sensors such as lidar) not because they can’t do it but rather because they are more cautious about brazenly lying to people about the capabilities of their system.
Other companies simply have less capable systems.
If I go and buy a current product Tesla, I can have it drive me home and chances are I won’t have to touch any controls. In a few cases, new production Teslas literally deliver themselves to the new owner’s driveway. Can any other automaker say the same?
