There is actually a Solar Power Generation system were a solar collector uses sunlight to melt salt which then circulates through pipes to a place were it heats up water to boiling and that steam then goes through a turbine thus generating electricity.
However to reach those temperatures a simple panel isn’t enough so what you have is a ton of mirrors over a large area all focusing the sunlight on a central tower were the salt-melting happens.
Here is an example.
By the way, this stuff actually has benefits over solar such as the ability to generate power at night (basically you don’t extract all the heat from the molten salt during the day and just keep using it to boil water to feed the steam turbine during the night), plus it’s a bit more efficient than solar panels and like solar panels it’s also improving, throught things like using different salts.
You can also choose to divert power to either new Vegas, the people, or a giant space laser which is really quite nice compared to traditional methods
you can’t just shoot a hole into the surface of mars!
It’s pretty much a required upgrade to be able to protect yourself from dropped or balistic nukes.
Solar collection like this can also explode birds if they fly through the wrong area as it’s essentially like a magnifying glass and ants.
Also Helios One from Fallout: New Vegas is based off of those, though I don’t think we’ve figured out how to make an Archimedes mirror out of one and a reflection satellite yet.
How hot does heat need to be to salt melting?
Depends on the salt used.
If you check here on table 5 you’ll see that common table salt (NaCl) melts at 801º C.
As for what’s used, in Chapter 2 of that paper they say “Molten salts consist of alkali metal or alkali metal halides and oxygen-containing salts”, so it’s not actually table salt that’s used in Generation 2 of those kind of power generators.
Thanks!
Do you know of the melting temperatures of any other substance you think I may be interested in?
I know this is supposed to be a joke, but it’s important to understand how it really works:
- particles from the sun hit the solar panel
- the panel accelerates those particles, which creates fissile material
- the fissile material is the used in a traditional nuclear reactor
- the nuclear reaction finally heats water
Giving us steam, to buy games from.
Exactly. And because the process is not perfect, the steam still contains some stray protons, which allows us to play windows games on linux.
That stray proton is enough to power CERN.
This is not how solar panels work.
You sure?
This very scientific image looks very convincing to me.
I knew that photons pushing electrons around was a scam!
FR. How can photons push if they don’t even have arms?
Are you calling Lemmy Shitpost liars?
Each panel has it’s own little steam turbine inside it in reality.
Some do. Not photovoltaic panels but there are plants designed around this principle.
i was coming in here to say that while this post is a joke, there is a non zero number of solar farms that use hyperbolic mirrors and glass tubes to super heat water generating pressure to spin a steam turbine
CCGT - A gas powered jet engine but instead of spinning to produce thrust it spins to produce electricity with a turbine. Then the hot exhaust is used to boil water to make steam to spin a turbine.
Where is the shitpost, solar panels do work by heating up water, unlike photovoltaics.
Solar panels are good to get a baseline amount of heated water for your home.
Solar panels do not, solar thermal conversion does, but they use mirrors.
By ignoring the second half of their comment you’ve missed the subtly that “panel” is an overly broad term and there are several different kinds of panels that collect energy from the sun for human use, among them photovoltaics, panels for heating residential water (often seen as black roof panels with pipes), and complex mirror (aka reflective panels) arrangements for melting salts. All of them use panels in some form.
My cousin (not Vinny) has solar panels to heat his water to like 50 C all year long.
And also photovoltaics for electricity.
There are also combo units that’s solar and PV in one, supposedly the water cooling down the PV panels should help keep it at optimal temperatures
I’ve seen non-photovoltaic solar panels for heating pools as well which is just a coiled black hose on a black panel.
Because I think the graphic missed the parts about the MC4 cables & the solar charge controller & the Lithium battery & the power inverter, a few little details like that.
There are literally some kinds of solar panel to generate heated water for things like home use.
They’re just boxes painted in black with a pipe with water also painted in black zigzagging inside of it, rather than being photovoltaic panels.
Were I live now - Portugal - something like that works fine even in Winter to generate hot water for things like showering.
That said even during the Summer something like that won’t generate steam (or at least, not with enough steam pressure to drive a turbine), unlike what the meme shows, though there are solar power concentrators that use sunlight to melt salt which then boils water to generate steam for a steam turbine, but those use a ton of mirrors to concentrate sunlight into a central tower were the salt is being melted. (For example).
That would be for photovoltaics not solar, no?
Appart from using solar power to melt salt as a energy storage solution, you also have water cooled solar panels that store that heat as warm water.
These are cool because they add efficiency by both preheating your water for your water heater and help cool the photovoltaic cells so they can run more efficiently too. Downside of course is that there’s now a bunch of water pipes on your roof too
(these are solar thermic power plants, their panels are black and usually assisted by mirrors leading to a similar look)
Solar thermal concentrators, they get so hot they have to use liquid metal.
They also function as adequate bird-zappers from what I’ve heard.
Parabolic plants also exist w/o a tower of sauron.
Why would anyone want that when the alternative is a tower of sauron
All I want for Christmas is new petty gods with towers to worship.
Real talk, there are not enough minor gods in the modern world. GIVE ME DICKOCALYPSE DAMMIT! (nsfw link)
But half the fun is having a gleaming tower of doom!
Didn’t this exact plant go bankrupt due to solar panels being so much more efficient?
No. The issue is solar panels getting much cheaper. The advantage of solar thermic plants are low cost of panels in exchange for more difficulty to maintain. This stops making sense when solar panels become dirt cheap and they cannot shift their power generation outside of peak solar(easily possible with molten salt tanks for the night, but not free)
If you mean the Vegas one, then yes it’s closing, don’t know if it’s gone bankrupt exactly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The facility, though cost effective at the time it was planned (2009), is now twice as expensive to run as solar photovoltaic technology, which has decreased in price much more rapidly than was expected in the 15 years since Ivanpah’s construction began.
I think that’s what they called a First Generation generator.
The ones in use now will actually use sunlight to melt salt (than then is used to generate steam) rather than directly generating the steam which has way more capacity to store heat, so they have a solar conversion efficiency of between 38% and 44%, plus the molten salt can keep on being used to generate steam during the night until it cools down enough.
Well that makes no sense, I need it to keep from being shut down to get Euclid’s C-Finder to work.
No worry. Just throw a bug report at Bethesda, wait a few years for them to do diddly squat, bitch on all forums and then wait until a modder fixes it.
It would make sense.
Thermal concentrator cost is basically fixed: mirrors of a specific quality, tracking mounts, an eye of sauron cooling loop. That tech doesn’t change much. Same with parabolic pipe plants.
But the bulk of photovoltaic installation cost is the panels. And those get exponentially cheaper.
Actually it does change, from what I read mainly in terms of what substance is used to capture the heat of the sunlight, which in turn has other implications downstream: for example, if you melt salt and the molten salt is used to generate steam (so a generation 2 system), rather than directly heating water with sunlight to generate the steam (generation 1), not only does the efficiency go up but you can keep on generating power during the night as long as there’s enough heat left in the salt, and whilst the basic principle is the same a lot of the engineering of the system changes because you’re circulating melted salt rather than steam, you want to store some of the heated salte for the nighttime and you need to concentrate more sunlight to reach higher temperatures so the area of mirrors is larger.
Here is a paper I found about this stuff.
That’s actually very cool. There’s a lot of talk of molten salt energy storage anyway, and this just integrates it.
Maybe it could be built closer to other renewables or cities, and use a big vat to store heat from other power sources, when needed.
…Still, though.
AFAIK, the (silver?) mirrors on mounted servos that have to be kept clean are a pretty significant fixed cost.
They’ve gotten cheap, in fact, that the panels are sometimes less expensive than the labor and mounting hardware.
Yeah.
At some point, mounting them statically becomes even cheaper than a tracking mount, I guess.
It’s been static for a while in the large installations I have seen.
There are hundreds of these.
Where sadam Hussein
I think you forgot the oil powered generator under the boiling water.
It’s coal powered, so it can double as a bbq grill
It’s always a steam turbine?
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀Wait till this dude learns about mitochondria
Can you connect that to ai data center that can generate an image of Trump with Clinton?
If only we could figure out a way to harness the power of the Giant Fan on the other side of the sun.
What about all the gay rainbow light spectrum that powers the entire thing?
Lotta loss in that system.
Should’ve put the water tank on the left to avoid loss
Just like modded Minecraft.
