I don’t believe being vegan is an effective method to combat [climate change]
Do we have hard data showing that if more people went vegan, it’d significantly affect climate change? Because if not… Then yes, I’d say it is a question of belief.
If what we have is data on the impact of the meat industry, data on the impact of things like water use and gases produced by animals on the climate, data on how the climate behaves and changes in general, and data on how other things affect the environment, you have to trust and believe that not only every part of it is right, but that it was also all put together and compared correctly.
And it’s difficult to know who to believe, when there seems to be so much conflicting information these days.
I’ll also say honestly that I don’t know if being vegan has a significant impact. What I’ve heard and read a lot of is that there’s a lot of blaming of individuals while supposedly big corporations are the ones causing the most pollution… Which simultaneously ignores the question of how much of that pollution is driven directly by people buying products that are polluting to produce.
The whole thing feels hopeless, and one feeling I do get about that is that doing anything as an individual seems pointless, since countless more people… They don’t just not care, they’ll actively do things they know are polluting, either because they’re a bit cheaper, or downright as a statement of objection to caring about global warming.
Regarding individual action, being vegan is likely the most effective thing one can do to reduce ones own emissions (except if you’re a frequent flyer, then stop flying). Yes, that’s under the assumption that individual action induces change. But that would also be arguing against switching to bikes, using public transport, and less flying.
You’re completely right that we need systemic change. And to get there, protesting, direct action, civil disobedience are likely the best we can do and far more effective than individual changes. But these actions also only become effective once there is an actual systemic shift.
I will note, in reply, one major point - there’s plenty of other arguments for going vegan, biking, using public transport. I think veganism is more ethical, and I have the impression it’s healthier as well - and both apply to biking and public transport in their own ways, health is kinda obvious, but ensuring widespread accessibility for people without cars seems like an ethical positive, and if respected for city planning it’d also make more pleasant cities to live in.
What I’m getting at is… Well, I’m not sure how to express it, but I guess to not forget the bigger picture? I feel like the previous commenter talking about not believing going vegan will have an impact was getting kinda dogpiled on (not really the right word, but maybe close enough), for what seemed like a reasonable statement, because they were speaking in opposition to something they might very well still consider a good thing.
Assumption is that animal industry will reduce if more people become vegan, and that has a big impact.
But I unfortunately agree, that the industry will likely not change until maybe at least 50% of population are strict vegans, or maybe even then, they will just try to make the rest of population consume more meat to never reduce the production.
Is this sarcasm?
It’s not a question of belief. It’s a question of understanding facts. Just like “believing” in climate change or vaccines or science in general.
The claim is as follows
Do we have hard data showing that if more people went vegan, it’d significantly affect climate change? Because if not… Then yes, I’d say it is a question of belief.
If what we have is data on the impact of the meat industry, data on the impact of things like water use and gases produced by animals on the climate, data on how the climate behaves and changes in general, and data on how other things affect the environment, you have to trust and believe that not only every part of it is right, but that it was also all put together and compared correctly.
And it’s difficult to know who to believe, when there seems to be so much conflicting information these days.
I’ll also say honestly that I don’t know if being vegan has a significant impact. What I’ve heard and read a lot of is that there’s a lot of blaming of individuals while supposedly big corporations are the ones causing the most pollution… Which simultaneously ignores the question of how much of that pollution is driven directly by people buying products that are polluting to produce.
The whole thing feels hopeless, and one feeling I do get about that is that doing anything as an individual seems pointless, since countless more people… They don’t just not care, they’ll actively do things they know are polluting, either because they’re a bit cheaper, or downright as a statement of objection to caring about global warming.
Regarding individual action, being vegan is likely the most effective thing one can do to reduce ones own emissions (except if you’re a frequent flyer, then stop flying). Yes, that’s under the assumption that individual action induces change. But that would also be arguing against switching to bikes, using public transport, and less flying.
You’re completely right that we need systemic change. And to get there, protesting, direct action, civil disobedience are likely the best we can do and far more effective than individual changes. But these actions also only become effective once there is an actual systemic shift.
I will note, in reply, one major point - there’s plenty of other arguments for going vegan, biking, using public transport. I think veganism is more ethical, and I have the impression it’s healthier as well - and both apply to biking and public transport in their own ways, health is kinda obvious, but ensuring widespread accessibility for people without cars seems like an ethical positive, and if respected for city planning it’d also make more pleasant cities to live in.
What I’m getting at is… Well, I’m not sure how to express it, but I guess to not forget the bigger picture? I feel like the previous commenter talking about not believing going vegan will have an impact was getting kinda dogpiled on (not really the right word, but maybe close enough), for what seemed like a reasonable statement, because they were speaking in opposition to something they might very well still consider a good thing.
I doubt it. first of all, consumption hardly causes any emissions at all. those happen at the production level.
No, the most effective is not having kids.
Assumption is that animal industry will reduce if more people become vegan, and that has a big impact.
But I unfortunately agree, that the industry will likely not change until maybe at least 50% of population are strict vegans, or maybe even then, they will just try to make the rest of population consume more meat to never reduce the production.
here’s a fact: meat production only goes up.
Yes it does. But that’s not due to vegans, is it?
being vegan hasn’t stopped it