Having a kid is the most selfish thing one can do with their life. You’re saying “I like myself and my partner so much and think we’re so good for the world that im going to make a mini copy of me and my partner, because the world needs more of us”
Can’t force you to have kids, the kids aren’t asking to be conceived or born. Only person making that decision is you and its a selfish one.
I say this as a father of two girls
This.
I’d like to take this moment to inform/remind people about filial responsibility laws. Filial responsibility refers to a legal concept where adult children are made responsible for their aging parents, including financially, for housing, for health care, and more. The laws differ by region, so it would be best to look it up for your particular location.
This is why some people are calling Millennials a “sandwich generation” - many of us are (or are going to be) made responsible for both the generation we raise, and for the generation that raised us, leaving us squished in the middle like a sandwich.
I foresee a lot of millennial die offs in their 50s from just the stress of everything.
It’s the same sort of hand-waving you’d come across in the Bible, or in old history books.
“See, the reason why this once flourishing civilization suddenly faltered is… they had become too arrogant.”
Or they sinned too much, whatever.The generation that spent decades saying “if you couldn’t afford kids you should have kept your legs closed” upon realizing that those that can’t afford kids are, in fact, not having kids:
shockedPikachu.bmp
Then they also spent a good amount of time attacking abortion and contraception.
Also having kids in such a horrible political and environmental context is pretty fucking shitty.
While the environment is a valid argument against, “politically” is very different. Even accounting for trumpy and the right-wing nut jobs, this is still the safest period in humanities history to have kids
We have measles outbreaks again.
YOU have measels outbreaks.
Quit your xenophobia. This is a global problem.
There was 1 case of measles in my country this year. 14 last year. This is a garbage country problem, like the U.S.
Why would you bring kids into a world we are actively killing?
Not true at all. We have never had a man-made climate change disaster like this.
The spread of antinatalism in social media is largely due to Russian psyop. Cool of you to help.
Social media? I didn’t comment from social media information, it’s just basic morals 101.
You are responsible for bringing a life into the world, and young adults now are already hating their parents for destroying the world and telling them “you handle it, I’m too old, bye”.
There is no logic that justifies having kids right now, and I don’t know where you get your weird info but maybe stop hanging in the stinky corners of the internet.
I’m sorry it doesn’t compute with you mr. Data.
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So the human race should just stop existing? I’m not saying you individually need to have kids. But some people will and they shouldn’t be villianized for it.
The human race could cut back a billion or two. Starting with the richest, of course.
It’s a bit more complicated then that. There is an issue with many countries being run by absolute psychopaths, particularly in countries where they arrange women into marriages and much of the world’s population problems come from those places. In countries like America the birth rate is very stable even metastable. People aren’t allowed to talk about that though so the conversation goes nowhere and we just get stuck with increasing racism year by year until democracy breaks, and the system snaps back to reasonable.
People forget that the real reason the west is better than other places is because of the free culture, and the freedom of ideas. That is really the only thing that makes us better than other countries. Now that both sides are into the idea of censoring or straight up blocking democracy, our system is almost certainly doomed.
I mean I agree with this, there are too many people. Just some amount of people should still have kids.
Choosing not to have kids isn’t villanising people who wants to have kids.
Did you read the same parent comment? It’s saying having kids is shitty. And I specifically said individuals not wanting kids is fine.
There are a lot of things you can do to make things better, without having kids. Once things are under control, then that will be another question.
The part of the movie that literally argues in favor of eugenics isn’t really something I’d agree with.
Great movie, though.
Ive never really saw it like that. I felt it was more a point about “intelligence” breeding uncertainty and using logic to find the “perfect time”. Worlds on fire? We wait. Weird guys is pres? We wait. Were not financially stable? We wait. And then they waited until it was too late. Meanwhile “less intelligent” people, although I think just more irresponsible, are banging out a bakers dozen per couple at a rate that the waiters can’t possibly hope to come close too. That combined with societal problems like lack of education, corporation looting of our country, cuts to programs that care for people and children, especially making sure kids go to school and dont get left behind. Its all gone, and the few places you can find it are also the places who look at the world and decide to wait, resulting in worst birth rates.
All this combining to make a situation where breeding with reckless abandon is rewarded by society, because the “intelligent” humans are so seldom having kids, that theyre outnumbered 13 to 1 at least. Thus the world goes about how you’d expect.
The thing I dont like is the weight of intelligence in this movie. Yeah its a main theme, but there’s so much nuance. Fish are great at swimming, but can’t climb a tree. My boy that had 13 kids iirc was a football star in his school, probly knows how to fix things, cars plumb8ng electrical etc etc. Or has some other skill that he excels in. I dont like that humans that dont know calculus and trig are stupid. Smart couple probly can’t fix their stove, probly get take advantage of by the “stupid” at the car dealer. We’ll whos stupid know.
I think there’s more nuance to this film than meets the eye, but because media literacy is at an all time low, people only see it as haha stupid people (the people im already against are the stupid) and they destroy society. I dont think thats all this movie is
Just my two cents, sry for the wall of text.
Love that movie too. It’s really unfortunate since the nature v. nurture aspects seem reasonable. They could have just left the IQs out and it would be just as funny.
I try not to think about the eugenics angle, and just look at it as “imagine anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and hyper-consumerism to an absurd degree. lol that would never happen amirite?”
Sigh.
Anything but creating a future people want to bring kids into. Posterity is dead.
Governments and corpos want free meat for the meat grinder without providing living conditions that don’t make people actively crave death. They can suck a fat load.
Those approaching retirement age need us to breed more kids so there’ll be someone whose work pays and sustains their retirement. From their point of view, not having them is selfish of us.
Never mind that, in light of the shit they burdened us and our hypothetical kids with, the stance “clean up our shit, then wipe our asses too” is even worse.
It makes sense in a certain framing; that framing is just bloody stupid.
Not only are they pulling the proverbial ladder up even more, they’re now adding ankle weights to those who had a chance to try climbing it.
I had a MAGAt religious zealot who was YOUNGER than me say I’m selfish for being ace. The mentality certainly surpasses generations.
I just don’t want kids.
I mean, “I don’t want this” is a very selfish reason, generally. But being selfish isn’t automatically bad.
When it comes to what you do with your own body, for example, selfishness is valid.
And when it’s about kids in particular, it’s the far more kind and responsible choice not to inflict the guilt of “I’m unwanted” on them.
Good on you for being responsibly selfish!
Selfishness is by definition about having little regard for others. I don’t really see the connection; how is refraining from procreation a disregard for others? If anything, choosing not to have kids is selfless, as it is being unconcerned with propagating my genetic lineage. The nice thing about sentience is that we’re not beholden to our biology. In most cases, we consider it a good thing to rise above being driven by instinct.
Selfishness is by definition about having little regard for others.
Correct. Generally, simply saying “I don’t do this because I don’t want to” does fit that criterion, as it justifies an action by your own desires only, without offering any consideration for the effect on others.
However, in this specific case:
how is refraining from procreation a disregard for others?
This example is a difficult, messy one. Generally, a species requires offspring to survive, and particularly our modern society depends on having young people work to sustain the retired ones. It’s a generational contract, sorta paying forward the support we’d like to receive when we’re old, in the expectation that each subsequent generation will help carry their predecessors and “repay” us for it. By not having kids, you’re depriving the future retirees of people to support them.
However, you obviously also have to consider the best for the children you’d set into this world. To have children just because your parents expect it, without regard for the kids’ wellbeing, would be irresponsible and inconsiderate. And particularly in our world today, I can’t say that inflicting it upon any children is fair to them.
Either way, your personal freedom entitles you to make that choice and it is not my place (or anyone else’s) to gainsay your decision.
I just wanted to point out that selfish doesn’t always equate to evil: There are cases where selfishness is absolutely valid.
I do get what you’re saying. And I should say I have enormous respect for people who choose to have children and follow through with raising them. But it’s a type of selfishness to want to extend one’s particular family line rather than choosing to adopt one of the many children who currently need a parental figure in their lives. If there were few of us and this was a matter of actual continuation of the species, the common societal framing would make more sense. But as it is, the choice carries no real ethical/moral imperative other than the responsibility to potential offspring.
Doing something or not doing it because it’s the right thing for you is not inherently selfish. It’s exactly the freedom we all cherish. And I think the typical framing of selfish/selfless does more harm than good in this case. We may just disagree over semantics. But at least here, “selfish” carries negative connotations, as the disregard described in the definition must assume some entitlement that the group has over an individual’s decision. I’m mostly pushing back against the foundations of that entitlement. Thanks for engaging with this thoughtfully. I appreciate the discussion!
I’m mostly pushing back against the foundations of that entitlement.
I’m trying to push back against the connotation, so I think we’re fighting the same fight on different fronts here :D
I’m also not going to have kids, for what it’s worth.
Correct, the most selfless act is to birth casualties for the next war. Their childhood poverty and lack of dreams will ensure it works!
Selfish fucking boomers projecting their selfishness upon others. Typical.
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I think it’s sad that things are so hard for folks who want to be great parents and raise amazing new human beings. It’s super shitty that anyone would be demonized for wanting to raise a family, especially considering they most likely aren’t the reason the world sucks and is too expensive most places. I agree the reason you see so much complaining about birth rates with no action is everything to do with folks wanting more meat for the grinder without budging on anything cost related to quality of life for said families. You see zero movement on trying to make it easier to have children, just complaining.
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depends on your family?
