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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml to Socialism@lemmy.mlEnglish · 7 months ago

Capitalist development vs Socialist development

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Capitalist development vs Socialist development

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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml to Socialism@lemmy.mlEnglish · 7 months ago
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  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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    7 months ago

    Except that it’s not. China’s development has been overwhelmingly peaceful, and China has played a positive role around the globe helping many other nations develop and improve their standard of living. On the other hand, the US has been at war throughout all of its miserable existence, and is responsible for carrying out countless crimes against humanity around the globe. It remains the greatest threat to human existence today.

    • Vampire [any]@hexbear.net
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      7 months ago

      See? You could have said that instead of posting falsified maps

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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        7 months ago

        the map is far more accurate than it is not though

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          the map is far more accurate than it is not though

          Come on, Yog, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard than this. It’d be so easy to just color in Vietnam and then you’d be set, but by posting it in its current form you are actively lying.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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            7 months ago

            I think there’s a difference between invasion/occupation and a minor border skirmish. Like yeah it could’ve been more accurate, but it does get the point across. 🤷

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              If I was just complaining about border skirmishes, then I’d mention India or something. The attack on Vietnam was more than just a “minor border skirmish”.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                7 months ago

                Well, feel free to explain how the attack on Vietnam constitutes an occupation. Are you suggesting China’s military action was carried out with the intent of annexing a part of Vietnam?

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  7 months ago

                  Come on, you’re more well-read than this. You know that military occupation and annexation are not the same thing.

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                    7 months ago

                    You still haven’t answered what you think the intent of the military action was. Do you claim any military confrontation is occupation?

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          Eh, I think you can illustrate your point a bit better, comrade. The map goes from good agitprop to bad when it is counterable by liberals and leftists alike. I agree with your general point on this post, so I don’t think the point itself is bad, but it could be better elaborated on with an actual map that shows what it says it does. Just my opinion.

          • Vampire [any]@hexbear.net
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            7 months ago

            The top one is taken from a website called vividmaps where it’s countries the USA has had some sort of conflict with

            List of wars being involved in is not a list of countries being invaded and occupied, nice try though.

            The bottom map is just a white map.

            Garbage meme 1/5

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              7 months ago

              Yep, it’s pretty bad for agitprop, even if I agree that the PRC has had really peaceful development all things considered, and the US is a genocidal empire, this map gets in the way of that messaging.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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            7 months ago

            That’s fair, I like the concept of the map hence why I shared it, but I agree it would be better if it was more accurate. Perhaps worth making a better one.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              7 months ago

              I think that’s a good idea! Reality speaks for itself, showing reality is the best agitprop.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                7 months ago

                I agree, and it is true that whenever agitprop has even minor inaccuracies then that’s the only thing people will fixate on.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  7 months ago

                  Exactly.

            • redrum@lemmy.ml
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              7 months ago

              I agree, also it misses the colonial expansion of the original USA (13 small States in the East Coast), the USA should be red

        • Vampire [any]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          One 😂😂😂 bit is the way it even uses a purer shade of white for China.

    • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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      7 months ago

      played a positive role around the globe helping many other nations develop and improve their standard of living

      african debt traps intensify

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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        7 months ago

        I love how you trolls just keep regurgitating the same few tropes that even mainstream western media has debunked

        • Chinese Investment In Africa Has Had ‘Significant And Persistently Positive’ Long-Term Effects Despite Controversy
        • study on Chinese investments
        • no debt trap
        • debt trap does not hold much water
        • China and Africa: Ethiopia case study debunks investment myths
        • https://www.lse.ac.uk/iga/assets/documents/research-and-publications/FDI-in-Ethiopia-Crescenzi-Limodio.pdf
        • https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/gild/2021/01/26/how-chinese-investment-shape-new-growth-patterns-in-africa/
        • https://www.asiafinancial.com/china-debt-trap-claims-in-africa-stem-from-us-rivalry-study
        • https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/chinas-infrastructure-investment-helps-fast-track-development-in-africa-expert/
        • https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/08/20/china-forgives-debt-africa/
        • https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/11/broadband-business-formation-and-economic-growth-in-the-global-south-assessing-chinas-impact/
        • uberstar@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          our civilized and altruistic IMF lending vs their horrifying Chinese extortion schemes!!! 😱

        • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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          7 months ago

          I love how you trolls just keep regurgitating the same few tropes

          my guy your waking life consists of reposting the same 5 talking points

          i’d maybe take a moment of quiet reflection

          Chinese Investment In Africa Has Had ‘Significant And Persistently Positive’ Long-Term Effects Despite Controversy

          “The results show that Chinese foreign direct investment (FDI) sets in motion a process of transformation in the local economy that damages local competitors but – at the same time – benefits local suppliers to the new Chinese firms as well as their local clients.”

          this is another way of saying that local businesses are destroyed, save from the ones that become functionally chinese subsidiaries

          if the west did this you’d be having a meltdown

          study on Chinese investments

          you know that when a bank restructures a loan for you, it’s not out of the goodness of their hearts, right?

          and that’s when they do restructure a loan for you, rather than just letting you default and having your economy explode like happened with sri lanka

          no debt trap

          guys they didn’t SEIZE a port they merely forced a country to lease it for 99 years at a bargain bin price

          China and Africa: Ethiopia case study debunks investment myths

          ethiopia literally had to default on their debt after this article was published

          https://www.lse.ac.uk/iga/assets/documents/research-and-publications/FDI-in-Ethiopia-Crescenzi-Limodio.pdf

          see above

          https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/gild/2021/01/26/how-chinese-investment-shape-new-growth-patterns-in-africa/

          this is the same as the first link

          https://www.asiafinancial.com/china-debt-trap-claims-in-africa-stem-from-us-rivalry-study

          this is about the port again

          https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/chinas-infrastructure-investment-helps-fast-track-development-in-africa-expert/

          this just says “development good” without defining what that is

          the same metric would justify european colonialism of africa

          https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/08/20/china-forgives-debt-africa/

          except for all the cases where they don’t and countries have to default, i guess

          https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/11/broadband-business-formation-and-economic-growth-in-the-global-south-assessing-chinas-impact/

          this link isn’t relevant

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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            7 months ago

            ethiopia literally had to default on their debt after this article was published

            The debt they owed to the IMF 😂 https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/imf-ethiopia-reach-staff-level-agreement-first-review-loan-program-2024-09-27/

            and that’s when they do restructure a loan for you, rather than just letting you default and having your economy explode like happened with sri lanka

            Oh you mean where actual western debt trap was happening?

            this link isn’t relevant

            No it wouldn’t, but I’m not expecting any sort of intellectual integrity from you here.

            this link isn’t relevant

            sure buddy

            • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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              7 months ago

              The debt they owed to the IMF

              do you understand how money works? you know it’s fungible, right?

              Oh you mean where actual western debt trap was happening?

              even in your cartoon world, china is a member of the imf

              and even if they weren’t, the largest share of single-source debt was from china

              i guess it’s easier to defend a worldview if you just like…make stuff up?

              any sort of intellectual integrity from you here

              said the person who cherry picked like 3 things to respond to, despite spending most of their life accusing others of cherry picking, and responded to them by making stuff up

              sure buddy

              okay let’s pretend it’s relevant

              selling it services and equipment now absolves a country of guilt

              wow, looks like the us is absolved of guilt to a comical degree

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                7 months ago

                Unlike you, I do understand how money and debt works. The discussion is about debts issued by China and their long term impact, which every study shows to be positive. I guess it’s easier to make a clown of yourself in public than actually learn about the subject you’re attempting to debate.

                • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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                  7 months ago

                  The discussion is about debts issued by China and their long term impact, which every study shows to be positive

                  except the ones you just linked, i guess?

                  you must have been very unlucky when picking which sources to show me :(

                  I guess it’s easier to make a clown of yourself in public than actually learn about the subject you’re attempting to debate

                  you know people (other people, not me, i’m here for serious discussion exclusively) only keep you off their blocklist because it’s really funny watching the fediverse e-clown ply their trade every day, right?

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                    7 months ago

                    The ones I linked provide a contrast between Chinese lending and IMF lending, but clearly that was too complex of an idea for you to grasp.

                    you must have been very unlucky when picking which sources to show me :(

                    I just vastly overestimated your intellectual capacity.

                    you know people only keep you off their blocklist because it’s really funny watching the fediverse e-clown ply their trade every day, right?

                    I’d be so insulted by that if I had a shred of respect for you.

      • davel@lemmy.ml
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        7 months ago

        Put the Kool-Aid down. Stop uncritically accepting propaganda from neocolonial states and their corporate media.

        • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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          7 months ago

          Removed by mod

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