people lack spacial awareness in the grocery store because a supermarket is an example of hostile design. it is intentionally disorienting and overloads you with information
The fucking floor displays in aisles that create chokepoints, and then aisles that have a bunch of popular shit all together creating a traffic jam. And don’t get me started on the lack of manned checkout lines anymore. Self-checkout is adequate as express lanes (i.e. limited number of items, limited produce, no alcohol) but sucks if you are buying more.
I try to go later in the evening to avoid the rush.
The most annoying thing about the self checkout is the need for you to put the entirety of your shopping on the time you weighing plate to make sure that I’m not buying my weekly shop but then sneaking a bottle of water past the system.
At least the IKEA self checkouts don’t do that. They let me buy my Pœlēøïng in peace
This is the core problem, right here. At a minimum, people need training to learn what information to ignore so you can navigate the whole thing. Even if you know the store’s layout, you still need to have the will to ignore advertising and disregard extraneous information. Being a fast reader that can do fast mental math, also helps tremendously.
Traffic flow is another problem. Wegmans is the chief offender here, IMO, by putting impulse items in massive crates that crowd the store entrance+exit combo. It amazes me that it’s not a fire hazard, because it makes entering the store a nightmare. But most grocery stores have awful choke points in produce, dairy, meat, and other high-traffic areas. And of course those are the stores that have no small carts or hand-baskets, obligating customers to gum up the works with big metal baskets that are 70% empty.
A better idea is a store that doesn’t flood your eye sockets with information you don’t absolutely need. Get rid of the special displays, end-cap bullshit, and vendor promotional stuff. Then, normalize all the price tags and include unit cost per lb/oz/L/whatever to make bargain hunting a snap. Then, measure the fucking carts and make sure that two can get by everywhere in the store. Finally, pick a store layout and stick to it. </rant>
I want to say that Aldi is already doing all of the right things, but I could be wrong.
The only thing that might be a problem is that milk and butter is at the back. But that is actually fine because everyone goes clockwise around the aisles, and there is room to pass, so it flows really easily. You go past all the basics you might need in like a minute.
Lots of the time it is a fire hazard, but unless the Fire Marshall knows about it nothing gets done.
Fire code is usually checked when the building is built or if there’s a remodel, but otherwise most places can go a long, long time without a fire inspection unless there’s a specific complaint.
Reporting suspected safety issues to the Fire Marshall or Building Official is okay. You’re not being a Karen. Building and Fire codes are written in response to avoidable tragedies and should be followed.
Fire Marshalls in many places are way too bust for random safety inspections. They’re reviewing plans, inspecting new buildings and remodels, and sometimes also doubling as the city’s arson investigators. And in some jurisdictions they’re also the fire chief.
Fucking Weggels… [what we call it at work] Those stores are laid out like some kid did a drawing and used AI to make a store out of it.
I need some gluten free crackers for my sister in law for Christmas, are they in the cracker isle, the gluten free isle, the cheese section? Two stores near me don’t even place them in the same location.
Ohh glass bottles of water! Let’s recycle! They’re in bulk this week, next week they’re in the water isle, next week the fancy drink isle.
I don’t think you realize who runs grocery stores. Most are just there because they have to be. They just throw it on the shelf and do what they are told.
The stores are told on a corporate level that items need to be stocked on certain shelves and all essential items (milk, eggs, whatever) need to be buried in the back behind anything that’s on sale so customers have to look at everything before getting the basics.
Workers are people who follow orders and have to live with the chaos and help customers actually find the item they’re looking for even though the company as a whole is the problem
No they aren’t. They have reset crews that come and change the layout for many reasons. I was a grocery manager for 15 years. Specifically the stocking manager. There has never been a “bombard them with information” directive.
It’s what sells best in the area and make it available. It’s not that highly coordinated.
it’s the who does the telling who creates the hostile design. the other things you’re describing, the dehumanization of the employees, are part of that design
One article that I can’t even fully read? Hardly call that evidence. It’s an interesting hypothesis. However in practice impulse buys are not what the discussion was. It is that the entire store is there to “bombard” you. It’s not. It’s categorized and that’s about it. You are thinking of the “sales” area. Which is routinely paid for by vendors.
okay. there’s been research out about the disorienting nature of of grocery stores since the 1970s when piggly wiggly was first normalizing a certain sales area experience.
and yes. i am talking about the sales area. i wae never trying to claim otherwise. the context this entire time was the experience of being a customer inside a building whose only purpose is to extract value from you as you try to acquire basic living necessities.
and impulse buys in that context are a desired outcome of the overwhelming experience.
is your objection just my use of the word bombard? i can use a different word. overstimulate you. better?
like i can find more articles this was just literally the first thing i found and i hoped it would point you in the right direction and help you understand. but reading your comment here it almost feels like you’ve taken such great offense to how i’ve worded this that you can’t be bothered to engage with what i’ve been saying since the start
Just try find and track the price per kg of a good, and you are in deep shit. Its some times hidden, after several “get the app”, “two for one” just to find out the good is fucking more expensive if you refuse go though the privacy invasing hoops. What the fuck happended to “Limited time offer until this actually cheap batch is sold out!”
people lack spacial awareness in the grocery store because a supermarket is an example of hostile design. it is intentionally disorienting and overloads you with information
The fucking floor displays in aisles that create chokepoints, and then aisles that have a bunch of popular shit all together creating a traffic jam. And don’t get me started on the lack of manned checkout lines anymore. Self-checkout is adequate as express lanes (i.e. limited number of items, limited produce, no alcohol) but sucks if you are buying more.
I try to go later in the evening to avoid the rush.
The most annoying thing about the self checkout is the need for you to put the entirety of your shopping on the time you weighing plate to make sure that I’m not buying my weekly shop but then sneaking a bottle of water past the system.
At least the IKEA self checkouts don’t do that. They let me buy my Pœlēøïng in peace
They let you buy your what? I promise I tried to look it up, but I had no search results.
This is the core problem, right here. At a minimum, people need training to learn what information to ignore so you can navigate the whole thing. Even if you know the store’s layout, you still need to have the will to ignore advertising and disregard extraneous information. Being a fast reader that can do fast mental math, also helps tremendously.
Traffic flow is another problem. Wegmans is the chief offender here, IMO, by putting impulse items in massive crates that crowd the store entrance+exit combo. It amazes me that it’s not a fire hazard, because it makes entering the store a nightmare. But most grocery stores have awful choke points in produce, dairy, meat, and other high-traffic areas. And of course those are the stores that have no small carts or hand-baskets, obligating customers to gum up the works with big metal baskets that are 70% empty.
A better idea is a store that doesn’t flood your eye sockets with information you don’t absolutely need. Get rid of the special displays, end-cap bullshit, and vendor promotional stuff. Then, normalize all the price tags and include unit cost per lb/oz/L/whatever to make bargain hunting a snap. Then, measure the fucking carts and make sure that two can get by everywhere in the store. Finally, pick a store layout and stick to it. </rant>
I want to say that Aldi is already doing all of the right things, but I could be wrong.
Aldi is by far my favorite. No nonsense, good prices. You’re in, you’re out. I appreciate they don’t play games.
The only thing that might be a problem is that milk and butter is at the back. But that is actually fine because everyone goes clockwise around the aisles, and there is room to pass, so it flows really easily. You go past all the basics you might need in like a minute.
Lots of the time it is a fire hazard, but unless the Fire Marshall knows about it nothing gets done.
Fire code is usually checked when the building is built or if there’s a remodel, but otherwise most places can go a long, long time without a fire inspection unless there’s a specific complaint.
Reporting suspected safety issues to the Fire Marshall or Building Official is okay. You’re not being a Karen. Building and Fire codes are written in response to avoidable tragedies and should be followed.
That’s a good call. I kinda/sorta figured that the fire department would see it sooner or later, but that’s clearly not the case.
Fire Marshalls in many places are way too bust for random safety inspections. They’re reviewing plans, inspecting new buildings and remodels, and sometimes also doubling as the city’s arson investigators. And in some jurisdictions they’re also the fire chief.
Fucking Weggels… [what we call it at work] Those stores are laid out like some kid did a drawing and used AI to make a store out of it.
I need some gluten free crackers for my sister in law for Christmas, are they in the cracker isle, the gluten free isle, the cheese section? Two stores near me don’t even place them in the same location.
Ohh glass bottles of water! Let’s recycle! They’re in bulk this week, next week they’re in the water isle, next week the fancy drink isle.
I don’t think you realize who runs grocery stores. Most are just there because they have to be. They just throw it on the shelf and do what they are told.
The people stocking the shelves aren’t the ones designing the store layout, dummy.
Rude. I worked as a grocery manager for 15 years.
Dummy.
did you design the store layout?
Did you? Do you know how most are laid out? Please enlighten me on their “information bombardment”.
The stores are told on a corporate level that items need to be stocked on certain shelves and all essential items (milk, eggs, whatever) need to be buried in the back behind anything that’s on sale so customers have to look at everything before getting the basics.
Workers are people who follow orders and have to live with the chaos and help customers actually find the item they’re looking for even though the company as a whole is the problem
No they aren’t. They have reset crews that come and change the layout for many reasons. I was a grocery manager for 15 years. Specifically the stocking manager. There has never been a “bombard them with information” directive.
It’s what sells best in the area and make it available. It’s not that highly coordinated.
it’s the who does the telling who creates the hostile design. the other things you’re describing, the dehumanization of the employees, are part of that design
There isn’t anyone saying it’s a hostile design. You don’t know what you are talking about.
https://uxdesign.cc/how-grocery-store-layouts-manipulate-your-shopping-behavior-aa3cd59e8fc0
One article that I can’t even fully read? Hardly call that evidence. It’s an interesting hypothesis. However in practice impulse buys are not what the discussion was. It is that the entire store is there to “bombard” you. It’s not. It’s categorized and that’s about it. You are thinking of the “sales” area. Which is routinely paid for by vendors.
okay. there’s been research out about the disorienting nature of of grocery stores since the 1970s when piggly wiggly was first normalizing a certain sales area experience.
and yes. i am talking about the sales area. i wae never trying to claim otherwise. the context this entire time was the experience of being a customer inside a building whose only purpose is to extract value from you as you try to acquire basic living necessities.
and impulse buys in that context are a desired outcome of the overwhelming experience.
is your objection just my use of the word bombard? i can use a different word. overstimulate you. better?
like i can find more articles this was just literally the first thing i found and i hoped it would point you in the right direction and help you understand. but reading your comment here it almost feels like you’ve taken such great offense to how i’ve worded this that you can’t be bothered to engage with what i’ve been saying since the start
Just try find and track the price per kg of a good, and you are in deep shit. Its some times hidden, after several “get the app”, “two for one” just to find out the good is fucking more expensive if you refuse go though the privacy invasing hoops. What the fuck happended to “Limited time offer until this actually cheap batch is sold out!”
This must be a regulation in Canada or something because $/100g is always on the bottom for the tag in small print.