cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/c/iasip@sh.itjust.works/p/426876/the-downsides-of-running-a-fediverse-platform
S17E3 “Mac and Dennis Become EMTs”
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still better by far than the echo chambers
The tankies?
I find that when people use this term I get suspicious. It could be used to describe authoritarian Stalinists, Maoists, Marxist-Leninists, or just communists/socialists in general. I wish that posters would be more specific, because everyone and their mother has a different definition of “tanky”. It often comes across as a thought-terminator. I’m not up to speed on the Lemmy beef, so I have no idea who’s right, but I’ve seen like 10 posts about tankies and none of them really defined the term, which is very frustrating.
Tankie would be ml or militant left
The .ml stands for machine learning obviously. Get with the times old head!
Ostensibly left (soc/comm) pro authoritarian.
Here’s what the sum of all human knowledge has to say about it.
42?
Those who literally deny the existence of the massacre in the Tiananmen Square, claiming that “nobody was killed” (or far more rarely, unapologetically stating that if they were, then they deserved it). Basically far-left extremists that exist in a world of “alternative facts” just like conservatives, the common denominator being that and simping for authoritarian regimes.
Words like “consent” tend not to matter to those holding that ideology.
Lmao is this all you post about?
Yep, and then wonder why no one likes them.
“Tankie” does not come from Tiananmen Square, that is a common misconception. The term “tankie” is 33 years older than the Tiananmen Square massacre.
It originated to describe people who supported the 1956 Soviet Union military intervention in Hungary. Stalin sent in a bunch of T-35 tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution. He was successful, and thousands of people died in the process.
Ever since then, “tankie” has been used as a derogatory term against Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, communists, and leftists in general.
To be fair, tanks seem to be a favored tool of these oppressive regimes. I’m personally not against communism, they have some good ideas like universal child care, guaranteed jobs, and housing (even though the latter may be considered sub-par by some). The problem comes when these fucking authoritarian cheerleaders come out and say communist governments were never oppressive.
The “oppression” you’re referring to is confiscating the properties of bourgeois capitalists and landlords, and imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes free, universal care and other social benefits possible. It’s absurd to expect the features of communism without the policies behind them.
Also, the idea that authoritarian socialist governments just have a sadistic tendency to oppress and torture poor peasants is deeply unserious and a work of imagination created by western capitalist propaganda.
Citations in an uncensored medium needed.
“Confiscating the properties of <insert populist excuse here>, imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes <insert idealistic talking points that funny enough always seem to fall by the way side in terms of a priority to rounding up people yet is always the goal supposedly being reached> possible.”
This seems like an instantiation of neocolonialism adlibs. Is your name Trump, Netanyahu, or Putin by any chance? The fact that you imply that these are in any way a requirement for universal care or social benefits gives your game away.
This isn’t the checkmate you think it is.
“Fascists brush their teeth twice a day. You also brush your teeth. That means you are a fascist!!!”
Do not omit the context from the general notion. I am speaking of bourgeois industrialists who exploit the working class, and not native populations with the right to sovereignty.
So no citations, just the same old regurgitated propaganda that has been in the library stands for decades. I think we’ve reached common ground, you recognize you are basically proposing:
“Confiscating the properties of <insert populist excuse here>, imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes <insert idealistic talking points that funny enough always seem to fall by the way side in terms of a priority to rounding up people yet is always the goal supposedly being reached> possible.”
And I’m just pointing it out. You speak of <insert populist excuse here> that only easily materializing in the caricatures you have in your mind but which you would do your best bourgeois impersonation to apply liberally if you ever got the power to do so. This isn’t the checkmate you think it is, you are just wearing a different brand of rhetoric that just ends up devolving in a pretty similar way.
This seems like an instantiation of neocolonialism adlibs.
Someone needs to tell Mohammed Mossadegh that he was doing neocolonialism when he nationalized the natural resources that had been stolen by British colonizers and that he’s exactly like Netanyahu for it. I guess the CIA was right to overthrow him, democracy be damned.
What an absolutely insane take.
The oppression they’re referring to is shooting at protestors wanting democratic reforms. The comment before that literally gives an example, the least you could do is look into it.
First of all, socialist governments, like any other government, did not use force on protestors unless provoked by seditious behavior (i.e. coup attempt or political unrest), and only in proportion, which was the case in Hungary and in China. Stories about tanks crushing the bodies of protestors is fictitious. Also, the history of the Soviet Union, the PRC and other socialist polities is filled with workers protests that were left unaltered because they are a natural part in the process of building socialism. Thus, the idea that freedom of expression was inexistent under socialism is false, which leads me to my second point.
The claim that the riots in socialist states called for “democratic” reforms is the furthest thing from the truth. In the case of Hungary, the 1956 uprising was orchestrated by the Prime Minister in order to establish a capitalist multi-party system and restore the property of the big landowners after they were purged in the preceding decade and their industries nationalized by the state. If you consider this to be “democracy” then you cannot consider yourself to be a leftist.
Thousands were killed in the uprising.
The demands largely emphasized national sovereignty and labor conditions, not restoration of appropriated property to the bourgeoisie.
Justifying an invasion, an act of aggression over international borders, under the characterization of sedition is simply begging the question of the legitimacy of the established structure of governance.
By this point, Soviet governance was failing to produce improved conditions for workers, and much of the working class was disinterested in further personal sacrifice for a prolonged struggle against the capitalist core.
I just realized what your name references, gtfo genocide enabler red fash belongs in the same pit as the regular fascists
Ahh yes, the burgeois sailors of kronstadt.
300 communists were arrested and imprisoned by the Provisional Revolutionary Committee but hundreds of others escaped. The prison warden, Shustov, claimed to be an anarchist and planned to execute 23 Bolshevik prisoners, although the execution was prevented by the arrival of the Red Army.
The mutiny was supported by members of the White Army and British foreign minister George Curzon encouraged the Finnish government to intervene against the Bolsheviks.
On 17 March, the mutiny was defeated and Petrichenko ordered the crews of Sevastopol and Petropavlovsk to destroy their ships and go to Finland. The soldiers did not follow orders and arrested many members of the Provisional Revolutionary Committee. In May, Petrichenko went to Finland and joined the White Army under General Pyotr Wrangel.
Uh huh right, source me reality then, enlighten us that live in The Cave
Except you’d not get that healthcare and the rest if you didn’t pay people off.
In theory it might seem fine, but in reality it was just a dictatorship, and quite a brutal one too.
Except you’d not get that healthcare and the rest if you didn’t pay people off.
eh docs and nurses are pretty fucking cool but don’t work for free. of course you’re going to pay people off, they need wages ffs
I’m personally not against communism, they have some good ideas like universal child care, guaranteed jobs, and housing (even though the latter may be considered sub-par by some).
Tankies never seem to get that that part is not being critized, but the subversive of the movement by authoritarians.
This is projection on three levels
First you’re projecting a lack of knowledge
Second you’re projecting basic social democratic policies onto socalism
And finally you’re projecting onto socalism the ‘subversive authoritarians’ that have done nothing but dismantle those policies while committing the worst atrocities in history around the world
And anyone who stands up to them (authority) gets called a tankie
The only good leftist is the one that votes for the BLUE genocidal drill-baby-drill rapist
Extremists like to use “alternative facts” or whatever other tactics achieve their goals. The means does not matter to them, only the ends, which they feel self-righteously justifies anything to achieve.
And then separately from that, gullible people also exist too. It is a bias that we all could fall prey to, though some of us seem more on guard against it than others.
(Tbf, many of those claiming those alternative facts are quite aware of just how nonfactual they actually are - they simply do not care as power, rather than correctness, is all that there is to them.)
(Tbf, many of those claiming those alternative facts are quite aware of just how nonfactual they actually are - they simply do not care as power, rather than correctness, is all that there is to them.)
This comment is dripping with unintentional irony. How many times have you been shown a picture of bicycles and pretended they were dead bodies?
I don’t think it is a common misconception, I think it’s pretty common knowledge (at least among the terminally online) that it started with the Hungarian Revolution.
It seems more common knowledge for people actually in Europe. Many people in the USA seem to have never really heard the word. Especially the younger generations (which since this is a memes community… does seem slightly relevant to your statement, as I would expect a broader populace here as opposed to a community dedicated to discussions of world-wide import).
There literally just was not a massacre in Tiananmen, reporters from different countries were on location to witness it and said as much at the time, you are pushing US propaganda and accusing the people correcting you of not understanding consent based on absolutely nothing, you are either an incurable moron or a fed, embarrassing either way
I have so many questions. I guess I never viewed as “tankie” as left.
Hell, I consider myself far-left to the point of being a progressive, almost to the point of being an anarchist.
But my reality is rooted in actual facts.
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Tankies only call themselves as leftists. And some places, like Hexbear, aren’t genuinely anything at all except people seeking “the dunk” - the appearance of winning an argument regardless of the reality of it (which requires a rigidly controlled echo chamber).
Hexbear got rid of their dunk tank comm. They are one of the most active instances with an excellent ongoing thread for international news and have some of the best analysis from people living in the Middle East, Nordic countries, China, South America, etc. Their mutual aid comm is one of the few places you can give directly to Palestinians, and a lot of comrades in need have found monetary help there (including me). Hexbear has its problems, but saying that whole instance is all about “seeking the dunk” is just another display of your ignorance, and how ironic it is that you keep accusing everyone else of only being interested in “winning and argument regardless of reality” all while revealing how unwilling you are to engage with actual reality. Every accusation a confession.
Tiananmen denial is hardly the only qualification for the term. That’s an example of typical behavior, not the definition.
It’s also far from the worst thing red fascists have done so it’s just so weird how hard people focus on it. At least talk about gulags and kulaks sometimes, damn
