The no arguing thing is key. Everyone eventually finds a topic that they don’t agree on, because politics, in the greek philosophy (aristotle based) sense of the word (I actually loved nicomachean ethics), is about the pursuit of the good life writ large. The chances of two people believing in the exact same life goals is almost zero, so there will be a fundamental disagreement at some point that, because we are talking about using governmental authority as a cudgel (in the modern sense of the word politics) to bring about a ‘good life’ for society, will cause a lot of friction.
In environments where we can’t control who we interact with, and that are semi-public with an ‘audience,’ such as work and family dinners, it’s just easier to say no politics and focus on the agreed areas of shared interests. Otherwise those little frictions can build into socially driven, highly charged arguments.
Keep political discussions to where everyone can easily walk away, where it’s one-on-one, or where everybody comes wanting to talk politics, and things are fine.
part of the problem is because talking solution politics = annoying please stop, but racist/fascist rant = hes like this just let him be. i can trace some parallels with our current conundrum.
The only place to discuss politics is the same place we’re supposed to talk about gun violence.
A concrete, soundproof bunker that you need to climb a 60-foot ladder down to seal yourself inside, ensure nobody is around, and whisper your grievances into a small vinyl bag, then tie the bag up with a zip-tie and place it inside a mason jar and return it to the shelf inside the bunker.
This is how you protest as an American if you want to follow established societal norms and etiquette. Anything else and it’s between 4 and 10 gunshots to the chest, face and back.
You CAN talk to your peers and people you work with who don’t outrank you or can get you fired. In fact, this is important. You just have to know how to toe the line and not come off as some kind of radical who will push people away.
Most people I work with are DYING to express something or rant or rave about how unfair or frightening this current immigration thing is, but are afraid to broach the topic. If you just know how to ask questions and listen people will open up to you.
You don’t DECLARE your politics on a Zoom call with your mid-level manager, you ASK people how they’re doing in one-on-one calls or while having lunch together, and while people are feeling friendly or vulnerable and you give them support whatever they say, while explaining your feelings even if they run counter to theirs. You can turn people this way, but more often than not you will find allies.
It IS risky, I wouldn’t promote it, I’m just saying it’s not quite as hot-firepoker of an issue as many people think. (Your results may vary depending on your industry, state you work in, and skin color.)
I’d rather work a job where people don’t support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.
That’s easy enough to say on the internet, but your recent incendiary hyperbole aside, hard to do IRL.
I don’t think even most Trump supporters would say, especially in an employment context, that they “support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.”
Even Trump said the most recent ICE killing was “unfortunate,” so your hyperbole puts even him in your camp. When you’ve built a straw-man that represents approximately 0% of the population, why even bother fighting it here except maybe for Lemmy clout?
Politics means the dealings of the city. It means the people and their lives. We’ve been conditioned to immediately believe political is equal to electoralism, which is a lie.
Politics is unionizing, it’s feeding your neighbors, it’s organizing community gardens and sing alongs, it’s starting a mutual aid network to ensure every need is met. It’s all these and million more things.
There are virtually no current events in Germany and yelling about Americans being cray cray is not constructive or beneficial to our mental health. They are not our countrymen.
No. Of course not. You jump to extremes.
That’s not very cash money.
But it does mean that we shouldn’t base our belief in the rule of law on the American system. Foreigners are doing foreigner things all the time. You might not like it but you gotta accept that from time to time. Attention is limited and should be spent wisely.
This may be because I’m autistic, but I think apoliticals are the most boring people in the world. Apoliticals always want to talk about the weather and their favourite reality TV show and what they did while drinking on the weekend. But My political friends talk about political stuff like science fiction, history, cool movies, fun gossip.
Politics is what humans are best at in all the animal kingdom. If a human wants to be apolitical, well they’re just not living up to their potential. I’d get just as much engaging conversation from a dog, and it would be cuter.
People like this are usually very timid and weak in emotional fortitude for talking about difficult topics, and have probably had too many arguments with people even less intelligent and it created trauma. To say nothing of the actual deliberate campaigns by many internal and external forces to poison the wells of dialogue so that everyone feels lost and afraid of politics.
I think along with the autistic spectrum comes an internal dialogue and information organization system that makes people care about more abstract concepts and ideas, which are inherently political if they involve more than one person, real or imaginary.
I don’t mind politics wonks if they have moderation and aren’t doomers.
Doomers or do-nothing liberals are the worst kind, I will take an outspoken conservative over liberals and doomers any day. At least an outspoken conservative chud I can talk to and understand and eventually break. Because I am smarter than most of them. So are you. We all are. We’re just afraid of confrontation but you can shape conversations so that these people let their guard down and actually become receptive to new perspectives if you can change their feelings.
the whole idea that discussing politics is lame is a neoliberal brainworm.
Don’t discuss politics with your family, just enjoy the time! — okay weird but sure
Don’t talk politics with your friends — what the hell why not
No politics at work — that’s a deeply political place wtf are we doing
When people say no politics, that means no arguing. This applies to office politics, family politics, and of course government politics.
The no arguing thing is key. Everyone eventually finds a topic that they don’t agree on, because politics, in the greek philosophy (aristotle based) sense of the word (I actually loved nicomachean ethics), is about the pursuit of the good life writ large. The chances of two people believing in the exact same life goals is almost zero, so there will be a fundamental disagreement at some point that, because we are talking about using governmental authority as a cudgel (in the modern sense of the word politics) to bring about a ‘good life’ for society, will cause a lot of friction.
In environments where we can’t control who we interact with, and that are semi-public with an ‘audience,’ such as work and family dinners, it’s just easier to say no politics and focus on the agreed areas of shared interests. Otherwise those little frictions can build into socially driven, highly charged arguments.
Keep political discussions to where everyone can easily walk away, where it’s one-on-one, or where everybody comes wanting to talk politics, and things are fine.
which ends up just meaning the racist uncle gets to shout his opinion and don’t you dare tell him he is wrong.
Fuck him, let him be wrong. In the Midwest we just ignore that person and they end up passed out on the couch by 5pm.
let us be right instead, then.
part of the problem is because talking solution politics = annoying please stop, but racist/fascist rant = hes like this just let him be. i can trace some parallels with our current conundrum.
The only place to discuss politics is the same place we’re supposed to talk about gun violence.
A concrete, soundproof bunker that you need to climb a 60-foot ladder down to seal yourself inside, ensure nobody is around, and whisper your grievances into a small vinyl bag, then tie the bag up with a zip-tie and place it inside a mason jar and return it to the shelf inside the bunker.
This is how you protest as an American if you want to follow established societal norms and etiquette. Anything else and it’s between 4 and 10 gunshots to the chest, face and back.
no way im going to talk politics at work, i have work to do.
U don’t discuss politics at work cos it’s a politically unwise move that will alienate about 50% of people. That’s the only one that makes sence
Here’s the caveat.
You CAN talk to your peers and people you work with who don’t outrank you or can get you fired. In fact, this is important. You just have to know how to toe the line and not come off as some kind of radical who will push people away.
Most people I work with are DYING to express something or rant or rave about how unfair or frightening this current immigration thing is, but are afraid to broach the topic. If you just know how to ask questions and listen people will open up to you.
You don’t DECLARE your politics on a Zoom call with your mid-level manager, you ASK people how they’re doing in one-on-one calls or while having lunch together, and while people are feeling friendly or vulnerable and you give them support whatever they say, while explaining your feelings even if they run counter to theirs. You can turn people this way, but more often than not you will find allies.
It IS risky, I wouldn’t promote it, I’m just saying it’s not quite as hot-firepoker of an issue as many people think. (Your results may vary depending on your industry, state you work in, and skin color.)
Maybe fifty percent need to be alienated.
So you get fired but at least you can be proud while unemployed?
I’d rather work a job where people don’t support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.
That’s easy enough to say on the internet, but your recent incendiary hyperbole aside, hard to do IRL.
I don’t think even most Trump supporters would say, especially in an employment context, that they “support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.”
Even Trump said the most recent ICE killing was “unfortunate,” so your hyperbole puts even him in your camp. When you’ve built a straw-man that represents approximately 0% of the population, why even bother fighting it here except maybe for Lemmy clout?
That’s the problem it’s way more than zero percent of the population.
I don’t disagree with that statement but it’s barely relevant to the sub-topic we’re on here.
Well you just said the complete opposite.
Politics means the dealings of the city. It means the people and their lives. We’ve been conditioned to immediately believe political is equal to electoralism, which is a lie.
Politics is unionizing, it’s feeding your neighbors, it’s organizing community gardens and sing alongs, it’s starting a mutual aid network to ensure every need is met. It’s all these and million more things.
Don’t yell about politics in the work place. Just complaining about straw men is tiring.
sure, let’s just finish our grueling shift during repression by the gestapo in silence.
nothing to see here, i don’t wanna upset the colleagues with such nonsense like “politics”
Yelling and talking are different things. Don’t get into a fit is all.
i find some yellers to be justified in their anger and break from polite decorum. given circumstances and stuff.
There are virtually no current events in Germany and yelling about Americans being cray cray is not constructive or beneficial to our mental health. They are not our countrymen.
which means you can ignore all the real consequences of their global campaign?
would the rest of the world be wise if they ignored european fascism the last time around?
No. Of course not. You jump to extremes. That’s not very cash money. But it does mean that we shouldn’t base our belief in the rule of law on the American system. Foreigners are doing foreigner things all the time. You might not like it but you gotta accept that from time to time. Attention is limited and should be spent wisely.
the extremes are literally happening irl tho
The cranky unhappy politics wonk endlessly droning on about the evils of the world are a drain on everyone else’s joy.
This may be because I’m autistic, but I think apoliticals are the most boring people in the world. Apoliticals always want to talk about the weather and their favourite reality TV show and what they did while drinking on the weekend. But My political friends talk about political stuff like science fiction, history, cool movies, fun gossip.
Politics is what humans are best at in all the animal kingdom. If a human wants to be apolitical, well they’re just not living up to their potential. I’d get just as much engaging conversation from a dog, and it would be cuter.
People like this are usually very timid and weak in emotional fortitude for talking about difficult topics, and have probably had too many arguments with people even less intelligent and it created trauma. To say nothing of the actual deliberate campaigns by many internal and external forces to poison the wells of dialogue so that everyone feels lost and afraid of politics.
I think along with the autistic spectrum comes an internal dialogue and information organization system that makes people care about more abstract concepts and ideas, which are inherently political if they involve more than one person, real or imaginary.
I don’t mind politics wonks if they have moderation and aren’t doomers.
Doomers or do-nothing liberals are the worst kind, I will take an outspoken conservative over liberals and doomers any day. At least an outspoken conservative chud I can talk to and understand and eventually break. Because I am smarter than most of them. So are you. We all are. We’re just afraid of confrontation but you can shape conversations so that these people let their guard down and actually become receptive to new perspectives if you can change their feelings.