cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7527794
average conspiracy cycle when it’s actually real
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Don’t get me wrong, but you have to live under a rock, or be very hard indoctrinated by USA imperialistic propaganda, to ignore all the facts, movies, stories, unclassified documents.
Everyone knows what CIA did, from black community to left wing and regular people in the USA, and everyone in the rest of the world.
We know, that this type of agencies, no matter is it from USA, China, Russia, Europe, or any other place, will do very shitty things, to gain political or economic power. And it’s some sort of normal for this type of organizations. Not normal is thinking that police is here to protect regular people, or the government agencies are here to protect your freedom. Read the history book, most of this type of agencies, was formed to
a) invigilate and ruin workers/revolutionaries/rebel fronts, b) to direct arrest, and remove opponents of whoever is in power.
The same story all over the world.
And people will still continue that ‘Conspiracy theorists are nutjobs’ rhetoric.
Yes, don’t get me wrong, believing that there are lizard people or aliens pulling the strings is questionable. But when somebody points at something highly suspicious and says, “hey, look at this, isn’t that weird?” if your first response is, “go get your tinfoil hat” then you’re being closeminded. So much in the Epstein files was called years and years ago, and even today people are reluctant to believe it.
Fav one: “who cares boomer!”
People are emotionally driven. Admitting something scary is more emotionally taxing than pretending it’s fake.
Yup.
<insert waterfall-warning meme>
[Edit: PS, while seeing this post, I happen to be playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evCh28gVap8 ]
What did they admit to?
I mean basically everything bad ever right? Coups and proxy wars all over the world, spying on everyone, torturing, human trafficking, drug experiments, assassinations, mass murder, etc.
Color revolutions. Tunesia, Bahrain (thanks Hilary), now Iran.
Can you point to relevant documents? I have heard of involvement in coups but I have not heard anything about them being behind so-called color revolutions, which I believe is a dangerous made up word used to justify imperialist repression against dissidents and protesters.
Some on the right are now referring to the current events in Minnesota as a color revolution, and I believe this is a result of our lack of criticism of this very dubious term.
color revolutions
Well I am using the term as distinct from a coup. A coup is when a small circle of power holders (usually but not always the military) seize power without the involvement of the masses.
When people talk about color revolutions in my experience, it’s usually an attempt to smear popular uprisings as being artificially created by some hostile foreign power. To my knowledge, such a thing has never happened. This is because it’s far more difficult to motivate the thousands or even millions of people needed to take such actions. You can’t simply pay them off or order them the way you can with a handful of generals.
The Shah was put in power in one of many coups supported or orchestrated by the US. But I would not describe it as a color revolution because there was little involvement of the general public. It was a struggle between elite factions.
No, it was exactly a color revolution.
Roosevelt quickly seized control of the Iranian press by buying them off with bribes and circulating anti-Mossadegh propaganda. He recruited allies among the Islamic clergy
And the Wikipedia for Operation Ajax:
In August 2013, the U.S. government formally acknowledged the U.S. role in the coup by releasing a bulk of previously classified government documents that show it was in charge of both the planning and the execution of the coup. According to American journalist Stephen Kinzer, the operation included false flag attacks, paid protesters, provocations, the bribing of Iranian politicians and high-ranking security and army officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda.
So I guess you’re saying that a truly popular uprising, like a spontaneous movement of the people orchestrated by the an imperial power has never happened? How narrowly do you need to define your definition, like, what evidence would convince you? I think your “its never happened” is an over correction, out of annoyance with online ML default talking points. And that’s understandable, they can be ridiculous. But where an online ML misapplies the label of a color revolution to a popular uprising, the opposite of that is not the truth. And practically, declaring the opposite of an untruth to be the truth is not the best way to combat misinformation.
Idk how practical it is to nitpick this in our current struggles. Like the tea party was kind of an inside job, right? The right wing funded, and continues to fund, a bunch of loonies to attack liberal democracy, directly connected to Koch money, which continues to fund the Heritage foundation and project 2025. Hell, it even appears that Epstein and collaborators had something to do with 4 Chan and Qanon, so the January 6th attack was heavily influenced by private capital with government connections in intelligence in the USA and Israel.
Also its not like Radio Free Asia was just some hobby amongst people interested in liberating their own countries, they are concerted efforts to sway public opinion toward outcomes favorable to the US. Why would they waste the resources if there wasnt a popular component needed to affect real change? Were we just wasting time and resources?
At what point does a corporation capable of affecting public policy, like an oil company (relevant in every example), when they fund protestors, or counter protesters, how do you slice that? Was it like 3 months ago when a bunch of old Mexican business people donned one piece shirts, and protested the social democratic policies of Mexico’s president Sheinbaum, using Trumpian talking points like resistance to cartels? If those business leaders or organizers had any connection to US intelligence, how does that figure? Or with the numerous failed coups in Venezuela, where the US declared Juan Guaido president? The US verifiably had connections with Venezuelan businesses and right wing leaders in orchestrating capital strikes and various economic attacks against the people.
If we crush the economy of a country and that causes a popular uprising, how does that figure? Does that ever happen completely absent of mass propaganda? I dont think so.
Like its very messy and amorphous, constantly changing and shifting dynamics, I think you’re being too hard and fast with how you want to categorize, or decategorize, a color revolution. And the reason is kinda silly. To me its like youre saying that because (almost) everything is an op, then absolutely nothing is. Not a single tankie gets owned by being a different stripe of wrong, and certainly no one is educated. Campism creates as many enemies of a cause as it creates allies, because truth isnt weighed according to facts but by opposition to the other.
If you want to defeat tankies, or any political sect, you have to out-organize them, not steelman or debate. So it’s not even a very practical position.
That you would accept, or even consider? I doubt it. If you are sincere, there is an article on prolewiki.
Prolewiki is a joke. So you have nothing.
There’s simply no evidence any nation has been able to engineer a popular uprising. Such a thing is not possible. People feel how they feel and they hate their government for a reason.
How is prolewiki a joke?
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It’s just selectively chosen and distorted facts and invectives against the enemies of authoritarian leftists. It’s not a serious attempt to document reality.
As an example, I looked at the page on color revolutions the user above recommended. It’s just a series of unsupported assertions with no supporting evidence. It literally doesn’t contain a single reference.
I do find it useful for evaluating leftists though. I find when prolewiki criticizes them then it’s usually because they actually care about facts and have consistent values. So it does have some use.
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Anyone can see what this guy is trying to do here.
If mods are removing my comment about it for ‘bad jacketing’ that says a lot about them.
I guess ‘lefty’ here is the embarrassing american Dem/lib “we’re not Republicans” and not more.
References Statista (2022). Catolicismo y evangelismo: las dos religiones más comunes en Latinoamérica – Statista UNDP Human Development Report (2021-22). Human Devlopment Report 2021/22 – UNDP “Chile: The Failed Socialist Revolution” (2019-09-14). Politsturm. Archived from the original on 2021-08-27. Retrieved 2022-06-12. Jeremy Kuzmarov (2022-09-21). “Murder on Embassy Row—46 Years On: Remembering the Assassination of Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffitt” CovertAction Magazine. Archived from the original on 2024-07-23. Vijay Prashad (2008). The Darker Nations: A People’s History of the Third World: ‘La Paz’ (pp. 147–8). [PDF] The New Press. ISBN 9781595583420 [LG] Notes Spanish: República de Chile
There are also people like Chris Hedges, Greg Palast and multiple others. But I already knew you weren’t sincere and wouldn’t accept any sources.
What I find fascinating, and I’ve certainly been guilty in years past, is the louder and more “confident” people are, the more uninformed, misinformed, or guilty they turn out to be.
Are these supposed to be links or what?
I reacted the way I did because you basically said “lol google it nerd” instead of providing useful information. You get what you give in online discourse.
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I was more wondering if there was something specifically relevant to the black panthers as implied by the comic.
Also I’m not totally sure they’ve actually admitted to all that, though I’m sure it happened.
You can literally read documents that have been declassified. Anyone can. Even if you are being pedantic, they released their own classified documents. If that doesn’t count as admission i honestly don’t know what would.
I’m not doing research to support your claims. That’s your job. The CIA has declassified mountains of documents, most of which are irrelevant to this question. And I can’t prove that something is not in there. You can prove it is. Or you can fail to do so.
I have yo. Yet you still disagree. If you won’t look at it yourself, then don’t act like you have any leg to stand on. You can’t say the sky is falling then refuse to look up.
What the fuck does any of that mean?
I’m just asking people to share information and substantiate their claims. If they won’t do so then I assume they’re full of shit. That’s just how this works.
Google it.
Their operations become somewhat declassified after X years (I don’t remember the exact number, but there is law for it). You can see many of their documents on the CIA website. For example, the Aerodynamic operation.
I was more wondering if there was a specific thing this comic was referencing. Perhaps in relation to the black panther depicted or something.
I know they wrote nasty letters and falsely signed them as leaders of other factions, but in the grand scheme of things that’s pretty mild stuff.
