Honestly I oppose the idea of going back in time and killing hitler. To me butterfly effect and everything. Just break into the hospital and swap hitler and another babies places, and poof you won’t get the same combination of nature and nurture that created hitler.
Or even more important, wouldn’t stopping WW1 be the key there. No historian here but there’s a lot of complicated economic stuff that happened after WW1 that leads to the rise of facism. Would seem to me killing hitler (or preventing his rise in other ways), would just wind up with a new guy in the same roll.
The thing about World War 1 is that it was inevitable in the sense the grand alliance scheme demanded total conflict. The sphere of influence approach to peace and balancing powera militarily itself provoked worldwide conflict. Most of World War 1 was a detached elite refusing to recognize reality as they sent wave after wave of people into machinegun fire.
By the time you’re going back to the root of it all you find yourself stabbing Caesar along with the rest of the time travellers.
The core reason that France and Russia entered into the alliance that so worried German military planners was that the Kaiser was a belligerent asshole. If he had simply not been such an asshole – or better yet if Bismarck had not put supreme military power in the hands of the German emperor in the first place – then the grand alliance scheme that was supposably responsible for the war would not have been there.
Even with that alliance in place, Germany’s perceived need to quickly stomp the shit out of France before turning on a slow-to-mobilize Russia in order to have any chance of winning – which was their main reason for wanting the war to start when it did and was why they backed Austria’s farcical ultimatum to Serbia – was proven to be ridiculously wrong by the events of the actual war. In actual fact, Germany was able keep France (with British troops thrown in for good measure no less) completely at bay while kicking the shit out of Russia for most of the war. Germany lost because of America’s entry into the war, and they weren’t even involved in the supposed “powder keg” that started it all.
I get you, but I mean the grand alliance scheme to be including what ultimately became the Quadruple Alliance/Central Powers. The Kaiser’s bellicose disposition is noteworthy but doesn’t mean he wasn’t strategizing around the Entente any less.
True, I suppose maybe there’s an alternate route… like allowing WW1 to happen, but perhaps, finding a way to change the Treaty of Versailles to be less punative and leave more room for economic growth.
Of course there’s so many variables still. Without nukes being used in ww2, would the cold war have stayed so cold.
At first I thought you meant that killing hitler would effectively kill everyone born after hitler since the conditions of their birth didn’t exist anymore.
But you’re going for a variation of the “let’s make hitler’s art career take off” plan, fair enough
Also worth noting with that definition of time travel, logically it would seem, time travel would be self eliminating.
IE, I go back in time, stop whatever I would consider the worse event in history… thus putting the world on a trajectory where myself or whoever invented the time machine no longer happens, leading to someone else inventing it, going back for a different reason, also changing the trajectory of history also eliminating the events leading to his time machine’s creation. Effectively the dice keep re-rolling until we get a world where the time machine is either not invented or not used, most probably early human extinction.
At first I thought you meant that killing hitler would effectively kill everyone born after hitler since the conditions of their birth didn’t exist anymore.
Well I would say, actually a really good point there, though I wouldn’t say “everyone born after hitler”, I guess really depends on one if WW2 happens. IE you kill hitler, but Heinrich Himmler lead the nazi party and history played very similarly. then you could expect possibly generations to unfold almost identically to the original timeline.
But yeah it’s the variation of the art career concept, except that I find the premise that hitlers actions were the cause… Fascism and Hitler were, a symptom of a broken country. Prevent the collapse, and the germans don’t vote for Hitler.
No. people don’t realize that Europe was primed for a war and was looking for any excuse to have one. If the death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand hadn’t happened something else would have come along.
Honestly I oppose the idea of going back in time and killing hitler. To me butterfly effect and everything. Just break into the hospital and swap hitler and another babies places, and poof you won’t get the same combination of nature and nurture that created hitler.
Or even more important, wouldn’t stopping WW1 be the key there. No historian here but there’s a lot of complicated economic stuff that happened after WW1 that leads to the rise of facism. Would seem to me killing hitler (or preventing his rise in other ways), would just wind up with a new guy in the same roll.
Time traveller supervisor: “Did you do it? Did you kill Hitler?”
Time Janitor: “Jobs done boss!”
Time traveller supervisor: “But nothing in the future changed! Are you certain?”
Time Janitor: “Yep, he was in a bunker somewhere, there was a dead dog and lady there with him for some reason, I shot him right in the head!”
I’m more in favour of putting a lot of bleach in the primordial ooze.
The thing about World War 1 is that it was inevitable in the sense the grand alliance scheme demanded total conflict. The sphere of influence approach to peace and balancing powera militarily itself provoked worldwide conflict. Most of World War 1 was a detached elite refusing to recognize reality as they sent wave after wave of people into machinegun fire.
By the time you’re going back to the root of it all you find yourself stabbing Caesar along with the rest of the time travellers.
The core reason that France and Russia entered into the alliance that so worried German military planners was that the Kaiser was a belligerent asshole. If he had simply not been such an asshole – or better yet if Bismarck had not put supreme military power in the hands of the German emperor in the first place – then the grand alliance scheme that was supposably responsible for the war would not have been there.
Even with that alliance in place, Germany’s perceived need to quickly stomp the shit out of France before turning on a slow-to-mobilize Russia in order to have any chance of winning – which was their main reason for wanting the war to start when it did and was why they backed Austria’s farcical ultimatum to Serbia – was proven to be ridiculously wrong by the events of the actual war. In actual fact, Germany was able keep France (with British troops thrown in for good measure no less) completely at bay while kicking the shit out of Russia for most of the war. Germany lost because of America’s entry into the war, and they weren’t even involved in the supposed “powder keg” that started it all.
I get you, but I mean the grand alliance scheme to be including what ultimately became the Quadruple Alliance/Central Powers. The Kaiser’s bellicose disposition is noteworthy but doesn’t mean he wasn’t strategizing around the Entente any less.
True, I suppose maybe there’s an alternate route… like allowing WW1 to happen, but perhaps, finding a way to change the Treaty of Versailles to be less punative and leave more room for economic growth.
Of course there’s so many variables still. Without nukes being used in ww2, would the cold war have stayed so cold.
At first I thought you meant that killing hitler would effectively kill everyone born after hitler since the conditions of their birth didn’t exist anymore.
But you’re going for a variation of the “let’s make hitler’s art career take off” plan, fair enough
Also worth noting with that definition of time travel, logically it would seem, time travel would be self eliminating.
IE, I go back in time, stop whatever I would consider the worse event in history… thus putting the world on a trajectory where myself or whoever invented the time machine no longer happens, leading to someone else inventing it, going back for a different reason, also changing the trajectory of history also eliminating the events leading to his time machine’s creation. Effectively the dice keep re-rolling until we get a world where the time machine is either not invented or not used, most probably early human extinction.
Well I would say, actually a really good point there, though I wouldn’t say “everyone born after hitler”, I guess really depends on one if WW2 happens. IE you kill hitler, but Heinrich Himmler lead the nazi party and history played very similarly. then you could expect possibly generations to unfold almost identically to the original timeline.
But yeah it’s the variation of the art career concept, except that I find the premise that hitlers actions were the cause… Fascism and Hitler were, a symptom of a broken country. Prevent the collapse, and the germans don’t vote for Hitler.
I wrote that in my time travel novel, character that keeps trying to stop WWI in hopes if fixing the future.
So let’s go back in time and trip Gavrilo Princip?
No. people don’t realize that Europe was primed for a war and was looking for any excuse to have one. If the death of Archduke Franz Ferdinand hadn’t happened something else would have come along.
So lets go back in time and kill the first monkey that used a stick
Monkeys at that time period were primed to pick up the first tool. If not that monkey, then another would’ve done it shortly afterwards.
Lets go back and club to death the first fish that decided to walk on land