• Arguing that the populace shouldn’t have guns, and pointing to the usa as an example, is arguing that our fascist government should have a monopoly on violence. Every successful “gun control” law has been put in place in response to persecuted minorities and activist groups having guns. For a famous example, see the Black Panthers.

    Peaceful protests are impotent unless backed by a genuine threat of violence. See how little the recent “No Kings” protests have accomplished vs the death of that one health insurance ceo.

    Now, I am in favor of fewer guns, but the order of operations is important. Let’s start with disarming the police and abolishing ice. So long as my friends/family/neighbors/whatevers are being abducted by masked thugs in broad daylight, it is my right and my duty to defend with lethal force.

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      Oh yeah, and all yours 1.2 guns per person are doing absolute wonders right now, when you pedo in charge is rounding up people to put in concentration camps and starting wars all over the world. All your guns will start working any time now, liberating you from fascism.

      • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 hour ago

        The utility of gun rights as a potential defense against tyranny isn’t proven to be zero by the existence of tyranny, because guns are not a complete solution. I think it’s likely they would be rounding up more people by now, with less expense and difficulty, if Americans didn’t have guns.

      • Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.works
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        3 hours ago

        It would have already crumbled to the ground in the 1900’s if we didn’t have them.

        The US government cares only about money. They don’t give a fuck about us, as evidenced by our healthcare system.

        We are expendable to them. Had we not have the guns we have now I truly believe it would have all ended for us a lot sooner and be significantly worse than it is now.

        I know other countries manage. Other countries aren’t managed by a bunch of rich pedophiles that will let children and people die for the sake of “saving” $50 on an insurance claim.

        Tell you what how about this, how about they take the guns from the police and ice and IRS and dea and atf and then we can sure talk about getting rid of our guns. But that will never ever happen.

        • axx@slrpnk.net
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          3 hours ago

          A “well armed militia” that is completely and willingly surveiled by private corporations that work with the government is fundamentally, critically impaired.

          The fact gun nuts harp on about what is, at this point, a fantasy of rising against tyrannical government while being nearly completely blind to operational matters like communication, organisation, surveillance, etc. is frankly ridiculous.

          If these people were serious about this, they’d be building infrastructure, communication systems, etc.

    • carrylex@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      Peaceful protests are impotent unless backed by a genuine threat of violence

      Eastern europe (exluding Romania) would like to have a word.

    • witten@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      You’re a big tough guy, so I’m pretty sure you’ve heard of The Art of War by Sun Tzu. One of the premises of that book is that you should attack your enemy where they’re weakest, not where they’re strongest. Makes sense, right? Well where do you think the Trump regime is strongest? Put another way, who do you think would win in a shootout between, say, the U.S. Army and a ragtag bunch of armed leftists?

      So if we can’t fight the regime where they’re strongest, where can we fight them? Economically. We can stop giving our hard-earned money to the companies that prop up the regime. We can do work stoppages to halt the engines that power the regime. And we can raise awareness of these issues (yes, sometimes by protests but also with other tactics) so this becomes a mass movement that has the power to actually topple the regime’s pillars of support.

      • Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.works
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        4 hours ago

        Yeahbwe should just make a campfire and talk to them while we are at it maybe get scoutmaster Dan to play the guitar for us while we all figure our peaceful solutions together.

        They murder us in the street at protests, idk if you have seen it on tv. They are singlehandedly crashing the economy on purpose so they can extract as much from it for themselves as they can.

        I would love for school shootings to stop and I think if a kid gets a gun there is an adult or likely a few that fucked up and shouldn’t have given the kid a gun.

        But taking them away from all of us isnt going to get the north side of Saint Louis or the south side of Chicago to just give them up this is what I don’t get you think when they made method illegal it just disappeared? Can’t find it anymore right?

        This whole take the guns away stance is them brainwashing you into believing that they will do right once you don’t have guns anymore.

        They aren’t raking them away from the police. They aren’t taking them away from ice. And the IRS. Until they do that, fuck them I will have guns and I will suggest others do too. Just keep them away from your kids

    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      Wow. How’s that gun ownership working against the fascist takeover of the US?

      It isn’t?

      Gun ownership has, in fact, been usurped by fascists and their supporters in furtherance of the takeover?

      Next argument, please.

    • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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      3 hours ago

      And how does that gun protect you against the masked thugs? They are cops and hence, I assume, you cannot legally shoot them when they enter your home. So resistance is useless? As a non-US - american, correct me if I’m wrong here.

    • BenLeMan@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      So where is the well-regulated militia defending the United States with their huge arsenal of guns? We’re not hearing anything about valiant protectors of the constitution taking up arms against the domestic enemies that are ICE, MAGA, etc…it’s almost as if the whole spiel about needing guns to resist a tyrannical government was BS all along. 🤔

      • Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.works
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        You didn’t see the like 3 or 4 multiple attempts at taking the pedophilic orange man out?

        They tried. Maybe one of them will eventually succeed.

        Also I’d like to point out that I noticed the ICE goons haven’t went to the hood yet. Let’s see how that plays out for them.

      • wakko@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        The option going unused doesn’t invalidate the need for the option to be there, moron.

        Some people make it pretty clear that the only thing they understand is forced behaviors. Almost like what they’re really after is eradication of individual choices on favor of top-down uniformity.

        I’m pretty sure there’s a name for that kind of centrally held power…

      • CascadiaRo@lemmy.zip
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        6 hours ago

        Man, I see this sort of thing commented all the time as some sort of “gotcha” and really have to wonder what it is you’re envisioning.

        Put yourself in the shoes of a firearm owner for a moment. Evidently, you believe the US has passed a tipping point where violent resistance is necessary.

        Where are you going with your gun and who are you shooting at?

        • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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          And just like that, we went complete route from “without guns we can’t fight fascism” to “guns are actually completely useless in fighting fascism” in two comments.

          • CascadiaRo@lemmy.zip
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            US - 1765 to 1784

            EU - 1939 to 1945

            Vietnam - 1955 to 1975

            Yes, I’m aware that only one of these cases was literal fascism.

            You can see my other comment in this chain, but firearms are the “last stand” tools to fight oppression. We’re in the midst of a particularly sensitive stage and, in my opinion, haven’t crossed the “tipping point” where a violent response would be wise or justified.

        • BenLeMan@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          Are you saying you’re suffering a dearth of targets?

          Again, if this is not the time to exercise your supposed God-given right to bear arms to ward off a tyrannical government then the whole point of the 2nd Amendment is moot.

          I’ve said it before: You guys aren’t going to vote your way out of this pickle. I hate to say this (sincerely!) but this is going to end in violence one way or another. 🙁

          • CascadiaRo@lemmy.zip
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            5 hours ago

            You didn’t answer the question.

            Am I to infer that you think that right now is an appropriate time to actively seek out and shoot ICE agents?

              • reksas@sopuli.xyz
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                no he got a point. If someone started doing that they would just get captured and tortured or killed. What can you meaningfully achieve with random violence, alone? Owning a gun will not help you protect yourself against force that can hunt you down and use your loved ones as leverage. Its just copium so people dont organize thinking they have power to protect themselves if things get bad but they never will use it because they are alone and scared, rightfully so.

              • CascadiaRo@lemmy.zip
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                I see that as a cop-out to engagement in discourse, an alt account and VPN/privacy technologies would be enough to shield someone from “taking the bait”

                My own opinion is that we have not reached a point where that level of response is justifiable, and I think it’s incredibly dangerous and irresponsible to suggest that it is.

                The administration’s current rhetoric revolves around the domestic terrorist threat / violent insurrectionist motif that, while some people may buying into, is not being substantiated with strong evidence.

                At this time, violent response / uprising by those perceived to be “on the left” will add fuel to validate that propaganda machine, it will firmly entrench the beliefs of those who might otherwise have a chance of moving away from it, and it will likely trigger a heavy-handed response leading to a substantial and catastrophic loss of life and liberty.

                Hypothetically, “with how subtle you are, you might as well” be an agitator seeking to be a catalyst to what I just described.