Oh the irony…
Not really.
¿Qué?
If we are throwing shade at American education, I like to start with statistics and basic logical fallacies.
If Americans were taught logical fallacies, their society would fall apart
Part of being powerful is a reduction in cognitive load. You don’t have to worry about what those strange foreign language speakers think or want because you have the guns and money. They have to worry about what you want. Being asked to learn another land’s language places them equal or higher in the hierarchy.
You just can’t allow that kind of thinking. I mean, what next, calling foreigners human? /s
It’s a shame there isn’t more language education in the US. We had one class on a foreign language starting in sixth grade, which is pretty late.
Most things here are mono lingual. I visited Montreal and I feel like if I was there for a few months, my rudimentary French would really develop. Unfortunately, the one time I tried to speak to someone there who didn’t speak English, it didn’t go super well. She was patient, but we weren’t really understanding each other. All my French is reading and writing, so I have an incredibly bad accent.
I mean learning Spanish for the southwest would be super valueable, I took 2 years Spanish but they suck at teaching. I learned nothing tbh. I learned a little while working retail mostly
Lean
Oh, the irony.
Bit oblivious, more like.
What value does a foreign language have for Bob, who lives in the middle of the country?
I learned two languages in school, have never used either one with a native speaker of that language.
I don’t understand this post or why you said “Lean”. Can someone explain? :(
You might notice the word “lean” somewhere up there. That’s a typo that OOP unintentionally & ironically made while mocking people for their perceived linguistics shortcomings.
The post says “lean” instead of “learn”.
If we had a different language in each state there would be a lot more Americans who spoke several.
America has 300 different answers for “what language do you speak at home with family”.
Three hundred.
You could have 6 different languages per state, with no overlap, just by shuffling people around.
Yeah and there are people that speak Basque in Spain. However, you won’t find many that are not Basque speaking that language. The Basque speakers all mostly speak Spanish.
Same thing in the US. Sure there are people that speak 300 languages, but the majority speak English. They are also spread out.
Only major exception would be Spanish
And even in the US there are a pretty good amount of native English speakers who have learned Spanish for this reason.
True, but that’s out of a nation of 350 million people.
I mean, I understand the spirit, but that’s bit too close to ethnic cleansing.
You have a different language in each house. If you want to learn or practice a new language, you’ll find speakers in any community.
I already don’t talk to the people who speak my language.
You could not talk to them in so many more languages! I hear Finnish is particularly good for not talking to people.
Sense of wonder from discovering how different people from different places think similarly or differently of the same experiences, or different experiences you never thought about.
Otherwise, maybe trying to interact with the immigrants probably covering the essential jobs in his small town that nobody else wants to do.Sense of wonder from discovering how different people from different places think similarly or differently of the same experiences, or different experiences you never thought about.
I mean, I’m sure some percentage of people who learn a language do so for that reason. But the vast, vast majority of time someone learns another language it’s going to be because they expect to use it, I imagine.
immigrants probably covering the essential jobs in his small town that nobody else wants to do.
I heard from others say “they’re not your tutor” and they just switch back to English with me 😭
What value does a foreign language have for Bob, who lives in the middle of the country?
I learned two languages in school, have never used either one with a native speaker of that language.
We have a huge population of Spanish speaking people here.
There’s roughly the same amount of people in the US that speak Spanish that do in Spain.
In our defense, most of us can’t even speak English.
I’m a citizen of the United States.
I speak 4, besides American English, at various levels of proficiency, but I’m an American-born son of immigrants who splits time between the US and EU (my wife is Dutch). I also enjoy linguistics and etymology.
Even though this is anecdotal, every daughter and son of an immigrant diaspora that I personally know, like me in the US, speaks multiple or at least 2 languages.
I argue this meme refers to an issue largely for Americans of European descent. Since a very young age, I noticed “white” people in America seem to be scared of “new” or “foreign” things. One of them is learning a language, trying to speak it in public with a native-speaker, and getting corrected for mistakes which will happen, including self-styled “leftists” and “liberals” (the American definition).
I categorize this specific phenomenon, this fear of embarrassment, as another facet or aspect of what some of my black colleagues back in the States refer to as “white fragility”.
Those people who look down on “Americans” should talk to more of us who aren’t of European descent. Perhaps, that may give some depth to your perception of us, or of what our capacity for a global perspective and living as part of a global community is.
Congratulations on erasing the 15% of black Americans, clearly a group that’s too privileged to even be mentioned
Dude, I think it’s pretty common everywhere for immigrants and their families to speak multiple languages.
Yes, I’m well aware.
I still think the meme should have “White” in front of “Americans” in its caption.
I mean I don’t think most black Americans know a foreign language either, because most of them aren’t part of an immigrant diaspora. And IIRC, this phenomenon happens to some extent in most predominantly English speaking countries. Most foreign language learning is a matter of practicality more than a desire to expand knowledge or something, and most non-immigrant Americans don’t have any particular reason to learn one.
I think it’s less about being afraid of speaking a different language, and more about not wanting to put in the effort to learn it.
Hard to learn a language when there’s nobody fluent to talk to in that language
One of the things Discord is actually good for! I learned Welsh and found a community specifically for practicing talking the language mentored by more experienced people.
I don’t want to talk to people online in a different language they’re mean.
Literally people are so smug and judgemental online.
Especially when an american joins a server in their language and starts speaking in it very poorly.
Interesting choice! Why did you decide to learn welsh? Don’t tell me you made a DNA ancestry test and want to follow your heritage…
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to follow your heritage.
I do have Welsh ancestry it’s helped me dig into, but I mostly did it because of my love for Arthurian legend. Wanted to learn more about it and in the process came across stuff in Welsh and just went down a rabbit hole and never stopped.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely respect following your interests for whatever reason. It’s nice you found something that inspires you! It’s just that as a European it’s kind of a stereotype that US Americans try to find their roots via DNA genealogy tests to find out they are 15% Irish and claim they have a deep connection to Guiness beer. These tests are mostly bullshit, but somehow it’s kind of a trend in the US for whatever reason. Again, I appreciate people being enthusiastic about things, sorry if I came over too harsh.
Yeah, the topic comes up quite often in the Welsh learners server I’m in (obviously full of Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people). It gets pretty heated going both ways, some annoyed by “culture thieves”, others glad people are learning.
I wouldn’t say the tests are bullshit. Some of the marketing for sure but the science behind them is sound. The problem is most people don’t really take the time to understand it at all and what it really means.
The reasons behind it being a trend are quite complex, probably beyond the scope of a Lemmy comment lol.
Depends where you are in the country or how wealthy you are, on whether learning a foreign language is a meaningful thing to do. People who live towards the middle and up north can easily go their entire lives without knowing another language. People who live towards the southern border could get a lot out of knowing Spanish. Towards either coast and knowing another language maybe useful. It’s a massive country that primarily speaks English, so it shouldn’t be a shocker to see that many wouldn’t need to learn a second language. I, myself barely know part of another language. And part of that is, it just isn’t really useful to me since almost no one here speaks another language.
Yeah, I mean fuck us and all we do suck, but I don’t think people outside the US and Canada really grasp how big this place is. A few years ago I drove to Montreal. It’s a 12 hour drive going 100km/h the whole way, and that’s to get to the nearest city that doesn’t speak English by default, a 24 hour drive in any other direction and I would still be surrounded by people speaking English.
For me it’d be a minimum of a 18 hour drive just to go somewhere where English isn’t always the default. Can be over a day’s journey to the other side of country. It’s just not like Europe where it’s an hour’s of a few hours trip to another country where they speak another language. Instead it’s a several hour trip just to go to the next state over who speaks the same language as me.
There is a lot of fair criticisms to make of our countries, but this isn’t really one of them. Instead you have to look a little deeper to understand the why people here don’t always know a second language.
Given that this completely ignores that there are thousands of people who can speak English and their native tribal language I’d say it’s both harsh and ignorant, putting aside that a foreign language was a required class in my high school.
USA you mean. (America covers Canada and Mexico and Brazil and… Well you get the picture).
As with anything in the US it’s more complex than that. Most of my friends speak a second language to some degree. German, Portuguese, Spanish, Russian, and I myself am working on Welsh.
Sure you get plenty of ignorant folk who call it useless, like most of my relatives, but plenty want to learn. US is not really one homogenous culture despite how it might seem at times.
US is not really one homogenous culture despite how it might seem at times.
You can thank first-past-the-post for the false majorities creating that perception.
That and Hollywood and pop culture (which would be what I expect other countries interact with the most) likes to homogenize and play to the most common elements.
Not like anglo-canadians bother themselves with learning the official second language of the country.
I’ve never had use for one.
But I did spend some time learning German and was able to hold conversations to an extent. Was interesting and fun and made some friends (they wanted me to stop trying so hard and just speak English lol).
They should encourage you to speak Germany. It can suck being a native speaker of the lingua Franca.
