• abbadon420@sh.itjust.works
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    1 day ago

    Lots of things taste like vanilla, but that generic vanilla taste is as authentic as the generic banana taste. Real vanilla tastes very different from the chemical imitation that you find in every cheap dairy product. The “plain” in this story is refering to that fake vanilla. Real vanilla is still very much rare, expensive and exceptional.

    Edit: fun fact, the fake banana taste is actually based off of the “gris michel” banana. This specific banana cultivar was THE generic banana you could buy in every grocery store. Until the 1950’s when almost the whole species went extinct due to a decease. The “panama disease”. Heavy monoculture farming made the banana industry extremely suseptible. Within a few years, all major farms were destroyed. Now we have a different banana cultuvar, the “Cavendish”. This banana is not susceptible to the panama disease,but variations of the panama disease are allready showing up around the world.

    • Quibblekrust@thelemmy.club
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      6 hours ago

      Fun fact: your “fun fact” is a myth. Artificial banana flavor is not “based off Gros Michael”. The flavoring is not some sort of recipe that was based off of anything. It’s a single chemical found in all bananas. It’s a coincidence that Gros Michael tastes more like fake banana flavoring than other bananas, but all bananas contain that same ester: isoamyl acetate. It’s just that Gros Michael has more of it.

      However, if you dig in to this tale a little it soon becomes clear that there is little or no verifiable source that artificial banana is based on Gros Michel. “It sounds very, very unlikely to me,” says synthetic organic chemist Derek Lowe.

      https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140829-the-secrets-of-fake-flavours

      So please stop repeating this myth.

      In addition, you’re completely wrong about artificial vanilla flavor. It is the exact ester found in real vanilla, and it is by far the most dominant flavor in real vanilla. It tastes exactly like vanilla minus a few extra subtle notes.

    • dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      6 hours ago

      Gros Michel still exists, but on an extremely small scale.

      Cavendish is also a monoculture so it may well happen again.

    • AFK BRB Chocolate (CA version)@lemmy.ca
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      15 hours ago

      Edit: fun fact, the fake banana taste is actually based off of the “gris michel” banana.

      This is an urban legend.

      The real reason artificial banana flavoring tastes so jarring isn’t because food scientists modeled it on a lost fruit from a century ago. It comes down to a classic case of isolated organic chemistry vs. complex natural agriculture, a phenomenon known in statistical science as the “n=1” problem, and a single volatile molecule called isoamyl acetate.

    • Chrobin@discuss.tchncs.de
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      24 hours ago

      Actually, the “fake” vanilla aroma is chemically identical to the main aroma of real vanilla. So you really can’t say that it’s as authentic as banana aroma, as that is only similar to real banana. Now real vanilla does taste different, because it has a lot of other components creating a much more complex taste profile.

      • scutiger@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Vanillin is the same chemical in both artificial vanilla flavorings and actual vanilla, so that definitely tastes the same.

        Most people don’t have the palate trained to really distinguish the subtle differences brought on by those other components and will probably appreciate both equally. I’m sure I couldn’t tell both apart unless I was comparing them 1-to-1.

      • Airfried@piefed.social
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        1 day ago

        Yeah, I was about to ask who hasn’t had both? Like, I’ve eaten, cooked and baked with real and fake vanilla and they’re almost identical. I prefer vanilla extract over other options and I don’t really care how much real vanilla is in it.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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          24 hours ago

          If you’re cooking it, I agree, it’s practically identical. When just mixed or raw, they’re fairly different. Obviously the primary smell/taste is still vanillin, but there’s a lot more to it that is mostly lost when cooking.

      • Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        For what it’s worth, it probably won’t go extinct. Even if there wasn’t a more resistant cultivar, they’d probably just get really expensive. It’s still possible to get gros michael and others, just not as easily or for less than $1 USD unless the buyer lives near a plantation.

        • mobyduck648@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          So this sent me down a rabbit hole and it turns out they’re basically not available in the UK full stop as a fresh fruit, even via the European importer I found thanks to Brexit. I can import it dried, or otherwise I have to make a long weekend of it in France to try it!

            • mobyduck648@lemmy.world
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              7 hours ago

              Yeah it’s a bit of a stereotype but I feel privileged to live where I do on an essentially invasion-proof island with no major tectonic hazards, cheap but decent grocery prices by international standards, and I can get on a train, plane, or ferry and be in one of dozens of other countries in under a day. Brexit did screw up a lot (like importing obscure fresh food on a whim…) but it can’t actually unanchor us from Europe.

              There’s a lot of structural issues and we hardly live in a utopia, in fact there’s massive own goals on housing and energy which probably won’t be fixed until NIMBY homeowners are no longer an electoral majority, but we’re too pessimistic to realise what a good hand we have geographically speaking.

    • Thorry@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      Wasn’t that whole gros michel story made up after the fact? Those bananas are still available, just more expensive. People who’ve eaten them have reported them tasting a bit more like the chemical banana taste, but not really the same. And the taste is highly dependent on how ripe the banana is. I think the actual story was the chemical banana was close enough and cheap and easy to produce. People also liked it, even though it didn’t really taste like bananas. So it became the de facto banana taste. In small amounts the taste is a lot closer, but people prefer the higher amounts because of the more intense taste.

      It even says as much on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel#%3A~%3Atext=The+Gros+Michel+has+a%2Cseeming+version+of+the+Cavendish

      A food history myth is that artificial banana flavor was specifically developed from the Gros Michel, but isoamyl acetate is a simple compound and was not based on any specific cultivar.

      • Axolotl@feddit.it
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        12 hours ago

        And the taste is highly dependent on how ripe the banana

        Just like with every banana cultivar

      • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        It’s all a little fuzzy but essentially the Gros Michel was THE cultivar of banana, but it became susceptible to a disease. It still exists, but can’t be farmed like it used to be.

        The chemical was developed and likened to the Gros Michel variety in mind for it being called ‘banana’ flavor since the Cavendish (i think?) hadn’t yet replaced the world market as the banana cultivar of choice.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      I think it might be more that the industrialization of agriculture made rare flavors far more commonplace.

      Even real vanilla isn’t all that expensive or hard to come by anymore. Virtually every grocery store has it in quantities that will suffice for anything but full on commercial needs.

      So it has become a default flavor, exactly because it is both cheap to acquire and popular to consume. Not unlike chocolate (which, I might argue, is more vanilla than even mediocre quality vanilla).