People who want a chronological feed are stuck in a 2010 mindset.
It worked back then, when the primary use case was just real-life friends and family. It does not scale to a “friends” list of 1000+ accounts, with news, politics, etc.
“Algorithms” are not the bogeyman. The problem is what they do, and the corrupt incentives behind them.
This is in no way an endorsement of the status quo.
I want to see who i follow post, and when they posted it. The “algorithms” show me the same shit over and over again and hide new content from me I actually want to see.
The crux of the issue is that what the platforms want to be, and the reason many people want to use them are misaligned.
A chronological feed makes no sense for a content delivery system, where the goal is to maximize the fit of the presented content to the interest of a user from a huge number of content creators. But it makes perfect sense if the goal is for a user to keep appraised of the lives of people they care about and be aware of events and situations with in that limited group. If someone spams or clogs up the feed with nonsense then people can tell them to nock it off, or mute them.
The problem is that every “social network” site inevitably jumps to try and become a “content delivery system” because it promises greater engagement from the existing user base, and thus growth. Users are trapped by inertia and network effects and forced to engage with a content delivery system they didn’t sign up for, assuming they don’t just leave because the utility of the platform as a social network is gone. By forcing companies to offer an option of a chronological feed, it gives them a choice on how they want to use the platform.
On a for-profit one, that’s being somehow profitable to it, whether by paying directly or through ads and content placement. Otherwise, you need a philanthropic platform, where either someone or you indirectly supports it, like a P2P one.
You can on Instagram. Click the big logo on top of the page and click “following”.
It’s the only way I interact with a feed. The default one shows me a bunch of stuff that I’m not following, which still feels foreign to me on any website. Maybe I’m just too old. I only want to keep up with friends / family on social media
That requires enough people I follow to where I need an outside entity to do the filter.
I think a big problem is the use case. Most social media sites are account led, not community led. This naturally makes it harder for users to find accounts outside their social circle.
So, how would your ideal social media platform decide what to show to the user in what priority?
I use Mastodon with a chronological feed and it works very well for me. I check it every few hours or even minutes during waking hours (depending on how bored I am) and get a huge share of my news that way. Most of my activity here on Lemmy is posting articles I discover through that exact feed.
Ideally the ranking algorithm would be transparent (open-source) and customizable. I DO think it should be regulated, but I don’t think mandating chronological sorting is a reasonable solution.
There should also be a way to easily sort things. Bluesky has a custom feed system, and I think Mastodon does too. I’m not a huge user of either so I’m not sure which is better. But ideally I would NOT have a mix of news, politics, art, friends, family, etc. That’s probably why I prefer Lemmy’s community-centered format to most social media’s account-centered format.
Here on Lemmy, I don’t typically use “new”. My subscribed communities are low-traffic enough that I suppose I could without losing my mind, but “hot” or “active” become better as activity increases.
People who want a chronological feed are stuck in a 2010 mindset.
It worked back then, when the primary use case was just real-life friends and family. It does not scale to a “friends” list of 1000+ accounts, with news, politics, etc.
“Algorithms” are not the bogeyman. The problem is what they do, and the corrupt incentives behind them.
This is in no way an endorsement of the status quo.
I want to see who i follow post, and when they posted it. The “algorithms” show me the same shit over and over again and hide new content from me I actually want to see.
Its not made for the end user
The crux of the issue is that what the platforms want to be, and the reason many people want to use them are misaligned.
A chronological feed makes no sense for a content delivery system, where the goal is to maximize the fit of the presented content to the interest of a user from a huge number of content creators. But it makes perfect sense if the goal is for a user to keep appraised of the lives of people they care about and be aware of events and situations with in that limited group. If someone spams or clogs up the feed with nonsense then people can tell them to nock it off, or mute them.
The problem is that every “social network” site inevitably jumps to try and become a “content delivery system” because it promises greater engagement from the existing user base, and thus growth. Users are trapped by inertia and network effects and forced to engage with a content delivery system they didn’t sign up for, assuming they don’t just leave because the utility of the platform as a social network is gone. By forcing companies to offer an option of a chronological feed, it gives them a choice on how they want to use the platform.
I want only a list of real life friends and family.
Why can’t I just have that again?
Because you need to meet the platform’s goals.
On a for-profit one, that’s being somehow profitable to it, whether by paying directly or through ads and content placement. Otherwise, you need a philanthropic platform, where either someone or you indirectly supports it, like a P2P one.
Instagram is of the former kind.
You can on Instagram. Click the big logo on top of the page and click “following”.
It’s the only way I interact with a feed. The default one shows me a bunch of stuff that I’m not following, which still feels foreign to me on any website. Maybe I’m just too old. I only want to keep up with friends / family on social media
because life is now all about the slop.
Okay but it scales for us. I only follow my actual friends and family and I only want to see what they share, chronologically.
That requires enough people I follow to where I need an outside entity to do the filter.
I think a big problem is the use case. Most social media sites are account led, not community led. This naturally makes it harder for users to find accounts outside their social circle.
The algorithm got added to fill the void.
So, how would your ideal social media platform decide what to show to the user in what priority?
I use Mastodon with a chronological feed and it works very well for me. I check it every few hours or even minutes during waking hours (depending on how bored I am) and get a huge share of my news that way. Most of my activity here on Lemmy is posting articles I discover through that exact feed.
But of course, the context here is a certain bill introduced in Australia, to which the correct response would be more similar to this article: https://www.freezenet.ca/what-the-media-didnt-tell-you-about-the-australian-off-switch-bill/
Ideally the ranking algorithm would be transparent (open-source) and customizable. I DO think it should be regulated, but I don’t think mandating chronological sorting is a reasonable solution.
There should also be a way to easily sort things. Bluesky has a custom feed system, and I think Mastodon does too. I’m not a huge user of either so I’m not sure which is better. But ideally I would NOT have a mix of news, politics, art, friends, family, etc. That’s probably why I prefer Lemmy’s community-centered format to most social media’s account-centered format.
Here on Lemmy, I don’t typically use “new”. My subscribed communities are low-traffic enough that I suppose I could without losing my mind, but “hot” or “active” become better as activity increases.