Not trying to downplay your experience. Having an abusive partner, regardless of gender is bad, it’s no joke.
However, with all that’s happening right now, not to mention historically, it’s being proved again and again that men are a constant threat to (not only) women. It’s why the “bear or man” question exists.
Not to mention, the statistics are pretty clear on that (even tho sexual violence statistics are criminally underreported, for which I blame victim-shaming and rape culture).
Not all men ofc, but always a man.
You are valid. Your suffering is valid. I’m really sorry you had to go through that. Definitely wasn’t trying to invalidate your experience.
I love and appreciate the work you’re doing to talk about women’s issues on the fediverse, god only knows the fediverse needs to hear it. I do wanna express the thought though that “always a man” doesnt really feel like it captures the issue very well
It feels like its intending to speak to one specific thing (the violence that women so frequently experience at the hands of men, and how that specific violence is a product of the specific way men are taught to relate to women under patriarchical social norms), but is not really clear enough to not invite misunderstanding
Men experience abuse at the hands of women at times also, and in that sense its not always a man. Women in lesbian and queer relationships experience abuse at the hands of their woman and enby partners at times, and in that sense sometimes abuse and violence happens to women that doesnt even involve a man in any direct way.
And I dont think those really speak to the point you’re trying to make, but I also think that it is always going to be hard for people to let down their defences and hear what’s intended and not what they’re worried you mean when you challenge parts of their socialization (like patriarchy or white supremacy), OR when they have existing hurt that a topic touches on (like their own experience with interpartner violence, sexual or otherwise)
“Not all men ofc, but always a man.” Feels like there are many people it is unlikely to reach who may otherwise be reachable, and risks alienating folks who have experienced very real sexual violence at the hands of partners outside of men, who already feel fairly alienated and like the kind of sexual violence they experienced isn’t seen as real or handled with care in a different separate way. And I dont think thats a good thing to risk doing. Nor do I think speaking to women’s issues necessitates it.
Anyway, if you read this thanks for hearing my thoughts. Just thought it was worth voicing cause thats the second time I’ve heard that specific phrase and I think its worth talking about whether it captures things well or does inadvertent harm
Thank you, it’s an important distinction to make. I also had a very emotionally and mentally abusive girlfriend who used threats of suicide and making me watch herself self harm were used as tactics of control.
You’re right of course, the massive amount of misogyny in society doesn’t mean that abuse from women doesn’t happen, of course it does. However sadly, it happens at far lower rates and/or because often, like in my case, the kind of abuse they do isn’t necessarily visibly as scars, only as mental scars, it also gets less attention and understanding.
It’s the same with almost all violence and horror. Yes, women do it too, for sure. However, men do it at such high rates in comparison (there can be debate on why) that it cannot be ignored or minimized, even for those who have been abused by women.
Abuse in general is terrible, as I’m sure we can all agree. It doesn’t mean that I’m way more likely to be killed by a woman as a trans woman, nope, my biggest fear is straight cisgender men, and the statistics bear it out.
Note: when I say “woman” here I’m obviously referring to all of us, that’s how much more violence comes from straight cisgender men, it just dwarfs any and all other categories.
100% this. I think this is why I’m always feeling a bit icky about the phrase “Not all men, but always a man” (and my feelings on the phrase isn’t a judgement on anyone that’s used it)…
I can see where it came from, as a counter to the “Not all men” folk shouting over the abused, but the "always a man" part, “always” being the issue, I fear may accidentally give a smokescreen for other abusers from other groups to hide behind, and I’d rather they also be pointed at and shamed regardless of the group they belong to (hell, just throw “mostly” infront of “always” and it solves the issue for me).
I’ve been inappropriately touched by a woman (thankfully only happened once) as well another time with a dude customer who groped me in full display while I was cleaning a table while I was at work only, for the woman in his group to tell me to stop overreacting and “he’s just being nice” (of course, he was the physical abuser, but I still see her as actively complicit). It just kinda worries me when someone accidentally gives a blanket defense to non-men abusers with the phrase…
That being said, just so there’s no confusion for others, it’s still obviously correct to highlight that the majority of abuse does usually come from cis straight men and I’m not against pointing that out in the slightest ❤️ I still feel way more wary around men I don’t know than anyone else, which is unfortunate but due to past experiences…
It’s just that one word in the phrase because of it possibly obscuring the bad actors in any other group.
If anyone reading has suffered abuse (be you man, woman, enby etc), I’ll wholeheartedly stand with regardless of who it was that did the abuse.
Not trying to downplay your experience. Having an abusive partner, regardless of gender is bad, it’s no joke.
However, with all that’s happening right now, not to mention historically, it’s being proved again and again that men are a constant threat to (not only) women. It’s why the “bear or man” question exists.
Not to mention, the statistics are pretty clear on that (even tho sexual violence statistics are criminally underreported, for which I blame victim-shaming and rape culture).
Not all men ofc, but always a man.
You are valid. Your suffering is valid. I’m really sorry you had to go through that. Definitely wasn’t trying to invalidate your experience.
I love and appreciate the work you’re doing to talk about women’s issues on the fediverse, god only knows the fediverse needs to hear it. I do wanna express the thought though that “always a man” doesnt really feel like it captures the issue very well
It feels like its intending to speak to one specific thing (the violence that women so frequently experience at the hands of men, and how that specific violence is a product of the specific way men are taught to relate to women under patriarchical social norms), but is not really clear enough to not invite misunderstanding
Men experience abuse at the hands of women at times also, and in that sense its not always a man. Women in lesbian and queer relationships experience abuse at the hands of their woman and enby partners at times, and in that sense sometimes abuse and violence happens to women that doesnt even involve a man in any direct way.
And I dont think those really speak to the point you’re trying to make, but I also think that it is always going to be hard for people to let down their defences and hear what’s intended and not what they’re worried you mean when you challenge parts of their socialization (like patriarchy or white supremacy), OR when they have existing hurt that a topic touches on (like their own experience with interpartner violence, sexual or otherwise)
“Not all men ofc, but always a man.” Feels like there are many people it is unlikely to reach who may otherwise be reachable, and risks alienating folks who have experienced very real sexual violence at the hands of partners outside of men, who already feel fairly alienated and like the kind of sexual violence they experienced isn’t seen as real or handled with care in a different separate way. And I dont think thats a good thing to risk doing. Nor do I think speaking to women’s issues necessitates it.
Anyway, if you read this thanks for hearing my thoughts. Just thought it was worth voicing cause thats the second time I’ve heard that specific phrase and I think its worth talking about whether it captures things well or does inadvertent harm
Thank you, it’s an important distinction to make. I also had a very emotionally and mentally abusive girlfriend who used threats of suicide and making me watch herself self harm were used as tactics of control.
You’re right of course, the massive amount of misogyny in society doesn’t mean that abuse from women doesn’t happen, of course it does. However sadly, it happens at far lower rates and/or because often, like in my case, the kind of abuse they do isn’t necessarily visibly as scars, only as mental scars, it also gets less attention and understanding.
It’s the same with almost all violence and horror. Yes, women do it too, for sure. However, men do it at such high rates in comparison (there can be debate on why) that it cannot be ignored or minimized, even for those who have been abused by women.
Abuse in general is terrible, as I’m sure we can all agree. It doesn’t mean that I’m way more likely to be killed by a woman as a trans woman, nope, my biggest fear is straight cisgender men, and the statistics bear it out.
Note: when I say “woman” here I’m obviously referring to all of us, that’s how much more violence comes from straight cisgender men, it just dwarfs any and all other categories.
100% this. I think this is why I’m always feeling a bit icky about the phrase “Not all men, but always a man” (and my feelings on the phrase isn’t a judgement on anyone that’s used it)…
I can see where it came from, as a counter to the “Not all men” folk shouting over the abused, but the "always a man" part, “always” being the issue, I fear may accidentally give a smokescreen for other abusers from other groups to hide behind, and I’d rather they also be pointed at and shamed regardless of the group they belong to (hell, just throw “mostly” infront of “always” and it solves the issue for me). I’ve been inappropriately touched by a woman (thankfully only happened once) as well another time with a dude customer who groped me in full display while I was cleaning a table while I was at work only, for the woman in his group to tell me to stop overreacting and “he’s just being nice” (of course, he was the physical abuser, but I still see her as actively complicit). It just kinda worries me when someone accidentally gives a blanket defense to non-men abusers with the phrase…
That being said, just so there’s no confusion for others, it’s still obviously correct to highlight that the majority of abuse does usually come from cis straight men and I’m not against pointing that out in the slightest ❤️ I still feel way more wary around men I don’t know than anyone else, which is unfortunate but due to past experiences… It’s just that one word in the phrase because of it possibly obscuring the bad actors in any other group. If anyone reading has suffered abuse (be you man, woman, enby etc), I’ll wholeheartedly stand with regardless of who it was that did the abuse.