This is just going to make them cool as hell for kids???
Trust me I grew up with marijuana being illegal and somehow it made marijuana, the least edgey drug I have ever encountered, feel edgey and cool.
I think it was the back alley deals that made weed cool and the bit of camaraderie that comes along with the in-group baddies smoking weed.
Now you just go into a shop and there’s a 19+ year old trying to sell you the ultra super duper bubble gum thunder blitz hybrid with 91% THC that you smoke through the shatter bong. Feels like Vegas when you just want a Doobie.
What made weed cool was that weed was made illegal because of racism and was always cool… we are just addicted to the forms of racism that disappear when you look right at them more than we are willing to let ourselves have cool things.
Prohibition only serves to empower organized crime and cops. We have been through this shit with booze and cannabis. We know better than this. Come on people.
Black market suffer too much after loosing hand on canabis?
Which prohibition has ever been good for health?
Also the other history notr: we literally did win against cigarettes with public health interventions.
Then we defunded public health and for some reason aslo took a decade to start treating vaping as smoking.
Treating vaping like smoking is wrong, though. They are nothing alike besides containing nicotine.
And you can’t even compare that because the forms of nicotine are different. The one used in modern vapes is only about 12% as bioavailable as the nicotine in tobacco.
Vaping is 95% less harmful, but there’s a gigantic misinformation campaign against it. Most studies that show that vaping produces harmful substances either had methodology that was designed to produce harmful results by using the devices in ways humans wouldn’t, or the scientific reporting on the study grossly misrepresented the findings to make vapes sound scary.
Public health interventions can do far more than banning! The reason it tooks so long to treat vaping as smoking is the far lesser danger of vaping for health (if you put aside the US studies).
This has nothing to do with health. We could cure death and everyone would still think smoking is the deadliest thing ever. I realized this 20 years ago while reading a book on nano technology that posited that we could cure death someday with it.
And I thought “That’d be great. Then I can smoke and not worry.” But then immediately I thought, “That can’t be right!” And I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how smoking would be bad for me in a scenario where it’s impossible for it to be bad for me. When I present this puzzle to others, they do the same thing.
Even without die of it, I would still prefer to avoid cancer. And smoking clearly rise the risk to have one.
Also, a cure we may have someday, is just a call to found research, not a real promise. Don’t build anything on such.
Sure, but if we can’t imagine a scenario where it’s okay to smoke, then it’s clearly a moral issue and nothing else.
Cancer is an health issue. Without health consequences at all, smoking would not be a problem.
I don’t see how moral could be related to smoking…
Well there is also the part that it stinks like shit
Because when you have a scenario where if you get cancer all you do is take a pill full of nanobots and you’re cured, it’s working kind of hard to find a problem with that. Admit it. It feels icky and wrong to say “It’s okay to smoke”. There’s a part of you that feels guilty for writing what you just wrote. What if a child reads that and starts smoking because of what you said?
I have absolutely no guilt at saying that if there were no health problem, smoking would be totally ok ; and even sometimes recommanded, since the benefice/risk balance would become positive. Yet for now, smoking bring health issue and it is therefore better for your health that you avoid smoking. But should you smoke, it would not be wrong, but dangerous (for you).
You and I may be standing outside Plato’s Cave, but most people are stuck inside. Imagine if we got control of the Star Trek franchise and made it canon that smoking has zero health effects.
Riker goes to sick bay and Dr. Crusher scans him. She has a Marlboro red dangling from the side of her mouth. She says, “You have stage four lung cancer.”
She injects him with the hypospray. “There. It’ll be gone by tomorrow. Get back to work.”
Riker goes to the bridge. Geordi is smoking a Marlboro Light 100. There’s an ashtray on the console. Data is smoking his pipe, of course. Troi sits. She elegantly and languidly sucks on a long, glamorous Eve 120 cigarette. Picard comes on to the bridge with a huge Churchill cigar clenched between his teeth. Worf turns around and he’s got an even bigger cigar, some Klingon brand, blood red and fluted or some other kind of weird alien design.
You and I see no problem. But everybody else would be saying, “Dear Lord! This is a family show! Do you want this to be part of their image?!”
regulatory hubris will only strengthen the black market.
personally I am actually FOR this as I want my dual nicotine/thc vapes ASAP. the black market always provides. and I dont give a fuck what your opinion is on this.
Same
Dont make tobacco illegal, make cigarettes illegal to sell. I highly doubt kids are gonna take the time to roll a cigarette to get hooked
Make nicotine a controlled substance. Smoke all you want, quit when you want.
Selling a drug that does nothing but addict people is fucking evil.
“Kids who vape are 3 1/2 times more likely to smoke tobacco in the future,” said Jessica Buckley, president and CEO of the foundation.
Sounds like bullshit. There are lots of fraudulent studies around vaping.
One of the things people need to understand is that many people self medicated using nicotine. But it’s almost inconceivable that vapers will go to smoking.
Sounds like bullshit. There are lots of fraudulent studies around vaping.
Vapers say what?
“One of the things people need to understand is that many people self medicated using nicotine.”
This is a given. Most people self medicate with alcohol and tobacco.
A lot people don’t want to be a statistic for side effects either. Here take some hydroxyzine, but hey it may cause you to be hyper aggressive. Sounds too similar to hydrazine.
I don’t know if it seems more rational to use something that’s been around forever.
How many are the same ones who would have smoked anyway too
If u think the study is flawed, the onus is on you to explain why it’s flawed
Sadly yes. But this has a long tradition - put out flawed study methodology or write publish incendiary claims and then only later it gets debunked. It’s fucking evil because vaping actually is one of the most effective ways to quit smoking and vastly safer.
It’s fucking evil because vaping actually is one of the most effective ways to quit smoking and vastly safer.
So far you’ve accused studies that say otherwise of being flawed without providing any analysis as to why, and you haven’t provided any sources of your own. It should like you just like vaping and have an axe to grind
Sure I have. Smoking kills. And vaping is ultimately just as safe as the nicotine patch. It doesn’t take much to understand that.
But as long as you are entertained mocking me by posting smarmy pictures, enjoy. I find it despicable. I doubt you ever research the topic. But the WHO, the World Health Organization, can be accused to killing millions with their zealotry that pushed many countries to outright ban vaping, while smoking remains perfectly legal and convenient. That is the result of many fraudulent studies.
This is not a trivial topic about “an axe to grind”. From my perspective, it’s not much different than mass murder. Why? Because of stupidity or profiteering.
So laugh it up. Mock me if you want. I don’t have time or energy to read and debunk this latest study, they are relentless. But I have read these kind of studies in the past and all the anti-vaping studies turned out to be fraudulent. Fraud use for propaganda leading to bad policies and preventable deaths. That is the moral dimension of this shit.
So reputable scientists at the WHO telling people that they shouldn’t inhale vape juice is tantamount to “mass murder”? I don’t know how to respond to this message without it sounding like I’m “mocking you” because what you are saying is so unbelievable and has so many flaws in reasoning that there is no sober response that doesn’t make you look bad
Should have been illegalized in the 20th century.
Yeah, cause everything that has been made illegal has just stopped being used and didn’t ever result in becoming more alluring as an underground substance.
The Canadian temperance movement was largely a success, that went on for a long period of time in a number of regions.
It didn’t so much fail (as it did in the U.S) as It was abandoned due to government disinterest due to lost tax revenue, societal transformation due to urban centralization and the generational shift that coincided with the allure of the short lived age of the roaring 20’s.
In the U.S, it can be argued that it was profiteers that dismantled prohibition. Not society. They’ve pushed the message that “prohibition can’t work” ever since.
https://thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/temperance-movement
Your linked source doesn’t support your comment. You should read it more carefully.
In the U.S, it can be argued that it was profiteers that dismantled prohibition. Not society. They’ve pushed the message that “prohibition can’t work” ever since.
How can it work? The most glorious criminal job possible is being a rumrunner, alcohol came custom designed to be an agent of chaos and I don’t see how trying to deny that won’t just backfire. In my experience growing up the drinking age laws in the US only made things far more dangerous as people drinking under age, it did LITERALLY NOTHING to stop our access to alcohol while making it cooler and more edgey in a way that supercharged our desire to access it.
Are you arguing against underage drinking laws to make a case against currently nonexistent prohibition?
Essentially yes, I have seen no evidence in my entire life that underage drinking laws save lives or reduce the abuse of alcohol, especially because of how car dependent the US is the only places underage kids can drink they have to drive to and then there are no responsible adults wherever that is which just makes it all WAY more dangerous. It also makes it so most kids introduction to alcohol is through hard liquor because it is way easier to hide and move around.
It wasn’t super uncommon for people from my hometown to die in drunk driving crashes and it is no mystery why to me.
Is it your position that underage drinking laws should be dismantled as they are the last vestiges of prohibition?
What’s your position on the illegality of narcotics or opiates? Crack cocaine, street fentynal, crystal methamphetamine?
In general I consider the prohibition and ESPECIALLY the criminalization of drugs to be 99% about people feeling righteous about their beliefs about society and 1% about the actual impact.
Prohibition is about the righteous satisfaction of violence and control, not really about helping people.
If you are going to disagree with me prove I am wrong.
Having watched my own parents die from smoking related illnesses, my father in law and sister in law succumb to lung cancer, it’s a shit way to go. Not something I want to watch or wish upon anyone.
As an ex smoker myself who hasn’t smoked in over 20 years, there are still days I think I’d like a smoke. It’s got a helluva mental hold on you.
Anything we can do to keep the next generation of kids to pick up this filthy habit is a win in my opinion. Stop them before they ever get the chance to start.
This may not be perfect, but at least it’s something.
And a great way to help stop cigarettes are vapes.
This. I know some people who have switched to vapes and have steadily reduced their nicotine to 0.
Plenty of opportunities for me on the black market then.
Morons.
I was thinking that too. I’m all for people quitting smoking, but this doesn’t seem lie the smart way to do it.
We shouldn’t ban cigarettes and vapes instead we should push people to healthier alternatives.
Education and freedom, yes!
But please don’t push, making addicts guilty doesn’t help health issues.
Like autoerotic asphyxiation.
All the rage these days. You even got the school yard pushers selling belts.
Like smorking
When are those people going to push for a ban on cars, specifically gas powered cars.
The health burden analysis indicated that TRAP from Canadian sources was associated with 1,200 premature deaths in Canada in 2015.
Non-fatal health outcomes included 2.7 million acute respiratory symptom days, 1.1 million restricted activity days and 210,000 asthma symptom days per year. The total annual monetary value of the health burden was estimated at $9.5 billion (CAD 2015), with $9 billion being associated with premature deaths.
To me this all seems a bit hypocrite and extreme. C’est de l’acharnement.
Well they haven’t officially cancelled this yet and I think we should keep reminding people of it: https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/06/building-a-green-economy-government-of-canada-to-require-100-of-car-and-passenger-truck-sales-be-zero-emission-by-2035-in-canada.html
Its worked in other countries, they should phase out THC too
Yeah, and while we’re at it, let’s phase out ethanol and sugar too. But not caffeine, we need workers to be productive.
