I think Americans are well past the point of blaming this on communism.
There’s still a kinda fear of “socialism” and other stuff as specters, but it’s internal. I don’t think many here are looking at shit that’s going down locally and saying “…Damn Russkies.” I haven’t seen that once IRL since like 2016. Even mega Trumpers I know are looking inward (at Democrats); that’s kinda the point of the movement, and those I knew who were a little Cold War nostalgic have, sadly, passed away.
Look at everyone attacking Mamdani, ethno fascists, techbros, liberals…
Its pretty much all ‘he is a big bad scary communist.’
He is of course not actually a communist, but even an actual socdem is so far to the left of the American Overton Window, the only vocab words that exist are ‘commie! socialist! which are the same thing, or something!’
Granted, the fact that Mamdani has significant public support means that there are more Americans who are more left-wing … but the actual Dem leadership, as with Bernie, cannot countenance losing their corpo megadonors, so they pull out the stops for anything left of … rainbow capitalism.
then lemmy is sampling all the stupidest libs to me, because blaming russians and chinese for their problems with trump and capitalism is the most common argument in lib lemmy posts and accounts.
It’s not a great analogy, to be fair, but I don’t think Bernie was trying to single out Stalin, who did indeed have an unwaveringly loyal following, to the point of being problematic.
Excuse me?? How could you not notice all the Russophobia and Sinophobia? The russophobia crap got really bad when Russia finally decided to do something about the Nazi Regime in Ukraine propped up by the US empire in 2014
The anti-china crap has been present for years now
If you refuse to see the proxy war the US is waging with Ukraine via the regime they propped up for it and their continued imperialist/empire expansionist plans with NATO, then you are not “all about criticizing the US for its many MANY faults”
You’re speaking as if the US started it. They did not. Russia literally invaded Ukraine in the false pretense that they are under the control of a Nazi regime. There is no Nazi regime, barely even a functioning contingent, and certainly nothing out of proportion with the rest of the world’s far right representation. If anything, this “proxy war” serves two purposes: 1. To field test new technology and 2. To undercut Russian propaganda. It’s apparent to anyone paying attention that Russia is the aggressor, they’ve vastly oversold their own capability, and their propaganda machine is flailing.
I’m not saying there are no issues within the US that urgently need resolved, but let’s be honest with ourselves – authoritarianism is authoritarianism no matter their lat/long or cultural/economic history, at home and abroad.
Edit: got caught up in my own argument and forgot to mention the obvious third reason: to help the sovereign nation of Ukraine defend itself from invasion.
It was a US orchestrated, planned and funded fascist coup.
They decided who would be in the (fascist) government, proven by the Nuland-Pyatt call.
Then those nazi scum terrorised the east and south for 8 years.
On the orders of UK US they broke the Minsk agreements, also proven and were going for a final push to ethnicly cleanse those who didn’t want to live under their regime.
But then ‘Russia started it’ LOL
The US started it.
Just like it did with Venezuela (failed so far), Myanmar (failed), Hong Kong (failed), Belarus (failed), Kazachstan (failed), Georgia (failed), Afghanistan (ruined and failed), Pakistan (to a lesser extend) and Syria (ruined but success).
Not to mention the “Arab Spring” (success), so Lybia among a host of MENA nations as well.
If the US hadn’t been involved with its subservient media, but some other country, like Russia, being involved then there would be questions like:
“How are these interim presidents like Ahmed al-Sharaa being selected?”
“So all of these interim presidents are all living in Russia and move from Russia into these countries as presidents?”
“And these people are recieving peace prizes in Russia/Belarus/North Korea?”
“So most of these people in Finland that’s in civil war right now don’t know at all who this interim president is, was never on the ballot, lived most of his life in Russia, but it’s okay, because this is an interim president, selected ‘internationally’?”
And headlines like:
“Russia installs another Puppet President into Finland under the pretense of democracy and soveirignity.”
“Russia calls to implement another slave shield zone above the nation of Greece, dubbed ‘no-fly zone’ in Russian language”
The only thing Ukraine stands out of the list is that Zelensky actually had been elected by the people and started out as an internal project for an oligarch, unlike CIA puppets Ahmed al-Sharaa, Hamid Karzai, Juan Guaidó, Reza Pahlavi, Fethullah Gülen, Aung San Suu Kyi, Joshua Wong, Ursula von der Leyen and others.
Zelensky however was about as thruthful in his campaign being an anti-war president as Trump has been and so his pro-Russian voters got completely betrayed, because he decided that he wanted to join the EU at all cost, thinking that this would turn his country into an economic miracle following the same economic trend as neighbouring Poland, repeating history with truisms as the economic landscape of the world has changed dramatically between the days Poland started to recieve EU subsidies and US investments and when Zelensky became president, with Russia in a much better position where it was back then and so Ukrainian people with growing economic ties to Russia only further entrenched themselves towards support for Russia.
Russia invaded Ukraine because it violated the Minsk 3 agreements time and time again and because of mistrust of the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement that included military cooperation with NATO countries, which aroused suspicions of Ukraine trying to join NATO, an anti-Russia organisation, with Ukraine being an artificially created nation by the Soviet Union that contains mostly parts of Russia and Poland.
The US supporting Ukrainian nazis thing was just the most emotionally infuriating part, but not the most worrying as suppression of the Russian people in the Donbass was, who tried to vote themselves out of the country, but were violently suppressed.
The invasion was a warning to Ukraine that if it did not sign the agreement that it would refrain itself from joining NATO,
it could expect a devestating war, which it now does.
If anyone has footage of this by the way, please direct me to it.
I did not save the footage of people going to polling stations and being shot at by Ukrainian troops.
The footage I saw had loud sweeping music/commentary added to it,
which did a giant disservice in my opinion to spread the atrocity that happened that day.
You are portraying Russia, a global superpower, as the unilateral victim. I am saying there is more nuance, especially concerning superpowers. I don’t support usurpation or invasion by anyone. You can’t suppose that ideologically and economically opposed nations won’t both editorialize (which seems here to be your concern, editorializing). Yet here we are.
See, the mistake you made was assuming anyone here is capable of understanding how nuanced debate works. It’s all or nothing around here. And if you so much as merely imply that communism/russia/authoritarianism/china is flawed in any way-
You get your comment removed and face the possibility of having you yourself removed.
I’d strongly suggest you search elsewhere if you’re looking for an actual conversation on topics like this, because speaking southward in a northbound wind-tunnel won’t ever result in anyone getting the message.
The US did start it, by constantly poking with threats and actions here and there. Like in 2014 when they overthrew the actual democratically elected Ukraine government for the crime of being “Too friendly with Russia” and then propped up the current Nazi regime that is completely russo-phobic.
They even went so far as to rename a city because it had a “Russian spelling”.
Right, because the US told Yanukovych to brutalize his people, and also told the people to revolt and the supreme court to remove him from office, so he could flee to Russia. Not saying the West didn’t see this as an opportunity to strengthen economic ties, but it was not a bear and stick moment. Why do you insist that only the West is at fault? Culpability is shared
Why would he tell people to “revolt” when he was the president of the country? That doesn’t even make sense. Who did he “brutalize,” specifically? It was the coup snipers who shot people in Maidan from rooftops. It was a false flag attack.
My blunt observation. People here in the US don’t care.
They voted a somewhat pro-Russian, Ukraine isolationist into power, and didn’t give a shit. Trump flip flopped, and they didn’t give a shit about that either. It didn’t move approval ratings one. Hair.
So you can keep saying the Big Bad American People have it out for Russia, that they cheer on Ukraine from their TVs. But on the ground here? They do. Not. Care. Frankly, if they were more educated, my racist family would bucket both Ukrainians and Russians as “white” and be largely indifferent to the war, as it’s not happening on US soil. They liked Trump reaching out to Putin for a peace deal. What keeps them up at night is brown people flooding over the border, tearing down Seattle or whatever Fox or Rumble is blaring. Or, more realistically, our country teetering on Civil War from internal polarization. Not China or Russia vs Ukraine or Taiwan.
So you can blame the not-quite-extinct neolibs and the government, I guess, but:
Russophobia and Sinophobia
IRL, as much as people (bots?) banter online, I have not personally heard one peep about Russophobia in years. We just aren’t that educated on foreign policy, nor into it like the Bush era. And the Sinophobia stops at “deport the foreign asians.”
Again, this is not my opinion or personal belief. Just my observation from the US.
It used to be the justification for tariffs, but yeah, it really feels like it died down. MAGA targets have shifted to Europe, and more recently, Brazil.
Venezuela is a big one, too. Oh my god, my family will not shut up about Venezuela. But that’s less new.
I think Americans are well past the point of blaming this on communism.
There’s still a kinda fear of “socialism” and other stuff as specters, but it’s internal. I don’t think many here are looking at shit that’s going down locally and saying “…Damn Russkies.” I haven’t seen that once IRL since like 2016. Even mega Trumpers I know are looking inward (at Democrats); that’s kinda the point of the movement, and those I knew who were a little Cold War nostalgic have, sadly, passed away.
What? “Damn Russkies!” is like the number one thing hardcore Democrat supporters blame for the state of the US
Nah.
Look at everyone attacking Mamdani, ethno fascists, techbros, liberals…
Its pretty much all ‘he is a big bad scary communist.’
He is of course not actually a communist, but even an actual socdem is so far to the left of the American Overton Window, the only vocab words that exist are ‘commie! socialist! which are the same thing, or something!’
Granted, the fact that Mamdani has significant public support means that there are more Americans who are more left-wing … but the actual Dem leadership, as with Bernie, cannot countenance losing their corpo megadonors, so they pull out the stops for anything left of … rainbow capitalism.
then lemmy is sampling all the stupidest libs to me, because blaming russians and chinese for their problems with trump and capitalism is the most common argument in lib lemmy posts and accounts.
Yeah, Lemmy does not represent the average liberal in the US, not even close.
My neighbor blames every current problem on democrats by saying “they are communist” as his main point.
I wish they were, they aren’t cool enough.
excuse me? both parties ran an explicitly sinophobic campaign, not once have the politician or their voting base looked inwards.
You have Trump doing Hitler 2.0 electric boogaloo and Bernie call it Stalinist cult come one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin's_cult_of_personality
It’s not a great analogy, to be fair, but I don’t think Bernie was trying to single out Stalin, who did indeed have an unwaveringly loyal following, to the point of being problematic.
Again. It is not really about Russia.
HITLER 2.0 ELETRIC BOOGALOO. How about compare it to a facist??? Mussolini? Hitlerite cult?
But Berine brain after hearing too many gun shot in schools compare it to a communist first, personifying the meme. Well past it my ass.
Using Hitlerite cult would’ve been more apt, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_cult_of_personality
Excuse me?? How could you not notice all the Russophobia and Sinophobia? The russophobia crap got really bad when Russia finally decided to do something about the Nazi Regime in Ukraine propped up by the US empire in 2014
The anti-china crap has been present for years now
ROFL!
Removed by mod
If you refuse to see the proxy war the US is waging with Ukraine via the regime they propped up for it and their continued imperialist/empire expansionist plans with NATO, then you are not “all about criticizing the US for its many MANY faults”
Motte-and-bailey. What happened to “nazi”?
You’re speaking as if the US started it. They did not. Russia literally invaded Ukraine in the false pretense that they are under the control of a Nazi regime. There is no Nazi regime, barely even a functioning contingent, and certainly nothing out of proportion with the rest of the world’s far right representation. If anything, this “proxy war” serves two purposes: 1. To field test new technology and 2. To undercut Russian propaganda. It’s apparent to anyone paying attention that Russia is the aggressor, they’ve vastly oversold their own capability, and their propaganda machine is flailing.
I’m not saying there are no issues within the US that urgently need resolved, but let’s be honest with ourselves – authoritarianism is authoritarianism no matter their lat/long or cultural/economic history, at home and abroad.
Edit: got caught up in my own argument and forgot to mention the obvious third reason: to help the sovereign nation of Ukraine defend itself from invasion.
It was a US orchestrated, planned and funded fascist coup.
They decided who would be in the (fascist) government, proven by the Nuland-Pyatt call.
Then those nazi scum terrorised the east and south for 8 years.
On the orders of UK US they broke the Minsk agreements, also proven and were going for a final push to ethnicly cleanse those who didn’t want to live under their regime.
But then ‘Russia started it’ LOL
The US started it.
Just like it did with Venezuela (failed so far), Myanmar (failed), Hong Kong (failed), Belarus (failed), Kazachstan (failed), Georgia (failed), Afghanistan (ruined and failed), Pakistan (to a lesser extend) and Syria (ruined but success).
Not to mention the “Arab Spring” (success), so Lybia among a host of MENA nations as well.
If the US hadn’t been involved with its subservient media, but some other country, like Russia, being involved then there would be questions like:
“How are these interim presidents like Ahmed al-Sharaa being selected?”
“So all of these interim presidents are all living in Russia and move from Russia into these countries as presidents?”
“And these people are recieving peace prizes in Russia/Belarus/North Korea?”
“So most of these people in Finland that’s in civil war right now don’t know at all who this interim president is, was never on the ballot, lived most of his life in Russia, but it’s okay, because this is an interim president, selected ‘internationally’?”
And headlines like:
“Russia installs another Puppet President into Finland under the pretense of democracy and soveirignity.”
“Russia calls to implement another slave shield zone above the nation of Greece, dubbed ‘no-fly zone’ in Russian language”
The only thing Ukraine stands out of the list is that Zelensky actually had been elected by the people and started out as an internal project for an oligarch, unlike CIA puppets Ahmed al-Sharaa, Hamid Karzai, Juan Guaidó, Reza Pahlavi, Fethullah Gülen, Aung San Suu Kyi, Joshua Wong, Ursula von der Leyen and others.
Zelensky however was about as thruthful in his campaign being an anti-war president as Trump has been and so his pro-Russian voters got completely betrayed, because he decided that he wanted to join the EU at all cost, thinking that this would turn his country into an economic miracle following the same economic trend as neighbouring Poland, repeating history with truisms as the economic landscape of the world has changed dramatically between the days Poland started to recieve EU subsidies and US investments and when Zelensky became president, with Russia in a much better position where it was back then and so Ukrainian people with growing economic ties to Russia only further entrenched themselves towards support for Russia.
Russia invaded Ukraine because it violated the Minsk 3 agreements time and time again and because of mistrust of the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement that included military cooperation with NATO countries, which aroused suspicions of Ukraine trying to join NATO, an anti-Russia organisation, with Ukraine being an artificially created nation by the Soviet Union that contains mostly parts of Russia and Poland.
The US supporting Ukrainian nazis thing was just the most emotionally infuriating part, but not the most worrying as suppression of the Russian people in the Donbass was, who tried to vote themselves out of the country, but were violently suppressed.
The invasion was a warning to Ukraine that if it did not sign the agreement that it would refrain itself from joining NATO,
it could expect a devestating war, which it now does.
If anyone has footage of this by the way, please direct me to it.
I did not save the footage of people going to polling stations and being shot at by Ukrainian troops.
The footage I saw had loud sweeping music/commentary added to it,
which did a giant disservice in my opinion to spread the atrocity that happened that day.
You are portraying Russia, a global superpower, as the unilateral victim. I am saying there is more nuance, especially concerning superpowers. I don’t support usurpation or invasion by anyone. You can’t suppose that ideologically and economically opposed nations won’t both editorialize (which seems here to be your concern, editorializing). Yet here we are.
See, the mistake you made was assuming anyone here is capable of understanding how nuanced debate works. It’s all or nothing around here. And if you so much as merely imply that communism/russia/authoritarianism/china is flawed in any way-
You get your comment removed and face the possibility of having you yourself removed.
I’d strongly suggest you search elsewhere if you’re looking for an actual conversation on topics like this, because speaking southward in a northbound wind-tunnel won’t ever result in anyone getting the message.
I’m honestly surprised they’re still up
It’s not a school night.
Nice “nuanced debate”
Touché
That’s right history starts on February 2022, nothing happened before then. 🤡
The US did start it, by constantly poking with threats and actions here and there. Like in 2014 when they overthrew the actual democratically elected Ukraine government for the crime of being “Too friendly with Russia” and then propped up the current Nazi regime that is completely russo-phobic.
They even went so far as to rename a city because it had a “Russian spelling”.
Right, because the US told Yanukovych to brutalize his people, and also told the people to revolt and the supreme court to remove him from office, so he could flee to Russia. Not saying the West didn’t see this as an opportunity to strengthen economic ties, but it was not a bear and stick moment. Why do you insist that only the West is at fault? Culpability is shared
Why would he tell people to “revolt” when he was the president of the country? That doesn’t even make sense. Who did he “brutalize,” specifically? It was the coup snipers who shot people in Maidan from rooftops. It was a false flag attack.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311886.2023.2269685
I’m not going to get into a citation contest with you, that would be a train to nowhere. My final point still stands.
Removed by mod
My blunt observation. People here in the US don’t care.
They voted a somewhat pro-Russian, Ukraine isolationist into power, and didn’t give a shit. Trump flip flopped, and they didn’t give a shit about that either. It didn’t move approval ratings one. Hair.
So you can keep saying the Big Bad American People have it out for Russia, that they cheer on Ukraine from their TVs. But on the ground here? They do. Not. Care. Frankly, if they were more educated, my racist family would bucket both Ukrainians and Russians as “white” and be largely indifferent to the war, as it’s not happening on US soil. They liked Trump reaching out to Putin for a peace deal. What keeps them up at night is brown people flooding over the border, tearing down Seattle or whatever Fox or Rumble is blaring. Or, more realistically, our country teetering on Civil War from internal polarization. Not China or Russia vs Ukraine or Taiwan.
So you can blame the not-quite-extinct neolibs and the government, I guess, but:
IRL, as much as people (bots?) banter online, I have not personally heard one peep about Russophobia in years. We just aren’t that educated on foreign policy, nor into it like the Bush era. And the Sinophobia stops at “deport the foreign asians.”
Again, this is not my opinion or personal belief. Just my observation from the US.
Then what’s all the China rhetoric about
Though to be fair I think it has died down a bit
It used to be the justification for tariffs, but yeah, it really feels like it died down. MAGA targets have shifted to Europe, and more recently, Brazil.
Venezuela is a big one, too. Oh my god, my family will not shut up about Venezuela. But that’s less new.